BUCK: We mentioned in passing in the last few days, I think, this Yale Law School free speech event that has started to get more and more attention as people realize the full extent of what occurred here, and it’s indicative of a much bigger trend, something that should concern and worry all of you across the country because of what it means for who wields power, not just in the apparatus as a general sense, but the legal apparatus of this country.
So, this is a piece up on the Daily Mail: “‘Law schools are in crisis. The truth doesn’t matter much. The game is to signal one’s virtue’: Yale law school professor who tackled woke mob at free speech event says future of the rule of law in the U.S. is in crisis.” Let me say, she’s telling you the truth. The law schools have gone ultra-woke.
They are churning out activists, and they don’t change their minds when they graduate from law school. They become prosecutors. They become partners at big powerful firms. They become the people that make the determinations within the legal apparatus. Clay, you went to law school. You understand the progression of this over time. It is remarkable to talk to attorneys today who will say, “It’s not that the left-wing law school and now post-law school…”
You know, associates at firms, all the way up to now more senior lawyers and prosecutors. It’s not that they disagree just on political issues. They get outraged by the notion that everyone’s entitled to a defense, that you have “the right to remain silent” no matter how bad of a right-wing person you may be. Maybe you were part of the insurrection! This is madness.
I don’t agree with that in any way. But by the time you get to law school, by the time you are 22 or older — and certainly as you are studying the law, which I was fortunate enough to be able to do at Vanderbilt Law School — it’s shocking to me to even think from the time when I was in law school, in the early 2000s (I graduated from law school in 2004) that at any point while I was on Vanderbilt’s campus, there could have ever been a speaker who was shouted down.
No matter what that speaker was discussing, it is unfathomable to me that it could have ever occurred. And when I read and see what is going on in law school communities now — and also inside of big law firms, Buck — this is a big deal that I don’t think is discussed enough. There are companies that are so woke now, Buck, that they are saying not, “Give me the best lawyers to represent this company for purposes of legal representation.”
But they’re saying, “Give me a set quota of minority lawyers to work on my legal issues,” something I’ve never heard of before. The idea that you wouldn’t pick the best lawyers inside of the best firm, but that you would say, “The people who work on this have to be cosmetically diverse,” it’s crazy. And the idea that we have allowed this belief — and I mean faculty, too . There are so many faculty, Buck…
There was a big story recently about the N-word. Do you remember this story? Inside of… I think it was Yale Law School as well, that a professor had read the N-word in a court case, and it had turned into a massive issue that you would even utter it. It’s inside of a proceeding, right, the factual analysis of a case.
BUCK: So their expectation is to change the court record of what was said Because it offends.
CLAY: That’s right. Yeah. Don’t read the transcript.
BUCK: And this is why I say this notion of banning a word for some people in all usage is all wrong.
CLAY: Yeah.
BUCK: We all abide by this unfortunately because in society, you get destroyed. But it’s wrong meaning that there are words you should not use to refer to people, but there’s always a context in which a word being said could be justifiable. For example, reading back in testimony in a court what a person said. The court stenographer is not a bad person for reading back what was said.
CLAY: Yes.
BUCK: But this is about ultimate control — control of your mind and control of your actions, obviously, as well — and the reason I think the Yale Law School thing is so interesting — and Clay well knows this because he went to a very esteemed law school, by the way. But Yale school is the number one law school in the country.
CLAY: Yeah.
BUCK: If you get into Yale Law School, our buddy, geopolitical strategist Elbridge Colby was a friend of mine from the D.C. days. He’s a Yale law guy, super smart. You go to Yale law, everyone is supposed to essentially genuflect at your legal altar. These places are turning out woke maniacs. I want people to understand across the country: The woke maniacs don’t change. They take their little Yale Law School golden ticket to the top of the legal profession.
They clerk for federal judges. They become federal judges. They become prosecutors. They become the top partners at law firms. Just to remind everybody, Donald Trump — the sitting President of the United States — had a tough time getting legal counsel for the fake Russia collusion bullcrap that they pulled against him because people didn’t want to be ostracized.
CLAY: Yeah.
BUCK: They didn’t want to be untouchable in the legal profession. Clay, I knew other people working in the White House didn’t have a lot of money. And it was tough for them to get the lawyers they wanted because nobody wanted to be associated with, think of this, a lawyer who doesn’t want to be associated with giving the proper defense to White House employees of a sitting president? This is what the woke legal madness has done. And props to Bari Weiss for dealing this in her Substack and having people write about it and do it so well.
I’ve defended people accused of domestic violence. I’ve defended drug dealers in my young days as a lawyer. That’s not because I agree with what they have been accused of, but because, to me, a lawyer has a zealous duty to defend to their utmost ability, even — even — people and even in situations where you would personally not be on the same side morally as the people you’re defending.
And so, this idea that has taken root in law schools of basically the woke universe taking over the legal profession… Buck, look at the ACLU. It’s a great example of an organization that in the 1970s was willing to defend Neo-Nazis who were marching in Skokie, Illinois — there were a lot of Holocaust survivors there — not because certainly they respected the opinions of the Nazis in any way, but because they valued our First Amendment and our legal system more than they did the heinous beliefs that were being defended that day. That’s what lawyers should do: Stand up for principle over politics, and instead politics is overwhelming principle now.
BUCK: We are watching right now, we are witnessing… Of course, this is, in the background of we have this Supreme Court nomination hearing underway right now and the senators are asking her questions. You and I both believe, Clay, and there’s been polling: Most of the GOP doesn’t even really care because they figure it’s either going to be Ketanji Brown Jackson or another left-wing activist. So what difference does it really make?
She’ll get through, and this is why we’re not spending… We’ll spend some time on the conversation today. But in the background of this we are witnessing in this country, and if you speak to… Clay, you know about this, you’ve seen this, friends of yours who are lawyers. I have friends and family who are lawyers as well. The transformation in the last 20 years where the left has gone from seeing what is a system of justice through our law, to a system of power and the wielding of power.
This is why they’re abandoning core principles like the right to a defense for everybody. This just played out in the previous administration under Donald Trump. Do you think it also might have played out, folks…? I ask you this question, for anyone who says this sounds like law school insider-y stuff: How many judges wouldn’t take any of the election challenges, wouldn’t even look at the election challenges Trump and his lawyers are bringing?
They threw them out right away, wouldn’t bring them to court. Maybe some were legit; maybe some weren’t. Do you think it might make some impact on this when you have people coming out of law schools, particularly elite law schools, who were effectively insane leftists who believe that their goal is not a justice system in this country, but “righting the wrongs” in a Marxist sense “of the past” by having a disparate system of justice today?
I think that really does matter. Here’s a quote that I think nails this home, Clay, on the Daily Mail piece: “Partners are being blindsided by associates who they think are liberals in their own image, but they’re not,” according to a lawyer in Washington D.C., “The associates want to burn the place down.”
CLAY: (laughing)
BUCK: Yep. That’s what I’m hearing from people all across the country, and for any of you who have ever had to go to court, for any who faced the justice system, for any who think their vote should account even though there are activist organizations, the corruption of the legal system by the left, wholesale, and the usage of law schools as indoctrination centers to do it is a major problem. This is like the deep state, but it’s the deep legal state.
CLAY: I’ll give you an example, Buck. My wife is in law school right now. I was in law school 20 years ago. She experienced what law school was like 20 years ago, compares it to now. It’s a time warp. It’s crazy how different the overall vibe is, and not just because — by the way, I do think this factors in, because it dehumanizes much — the last two years, law school students have had to wear masks.
And I think that’s only going to accelerate the insanity, because it dehumanizes so much and makes everything… It is just going to… This is an underrated story. My jaw dropped when I saw that protest at Yale Law School, smartest lawyers in the country. Buck, they study law at Yale. One reason people love to go there is they don’t give grades. That’s how cocky they are.
BUCK: They want to change the administration standards dramatically, by the way, so it’s really hard for some to get in, a lot easier for some people to get in, and they don’t want those disparities to be apparent over the three years of law school as in other places.
CLAY: Even back 50 years ago, they did the pass/fail system. Which I was I was like, “Man, I would love to go to Yale.”
BUCK: They can get away with because there’s not the same ranking so they can change their admission standards such that it doesn’t affect your perception.
CLAY: You’re a made man or woman no matter what if you get in there. I think Stanford also does pass/fail, which is pretty incredible. That’s unheard of to be that exclusive, where you don’t even have to rank any of your students. You’re all supposed to be that elite.
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