BUCK: We’re now joined by our friend Will Cain, host of Fox & Friends Weekend and the Will Cain Podcast. He’s also got a special on Fox Nation coming out next week called Long Drive Back: Tiger Woods and Ben Hogan. Will, buddy, good to have you.

CAIN: Buck, Clay, what’s up, guys?

BUCK: We’re good, man. So we spent a lot of time today talking about the pivot, the big shift right now away from mask up between bites outside in the cold — or make the kids do that at least — to maybe it’s time to think about life somewhat normal going forward. What do you think is going on here?

CAIN: I can only assume it’s rats jumping off of the ship seeing that the ship is sinking. I can only assume it has to do with absolutely abysmal polling numbers and the potential blood path at the polls. That being said, whatever is motivating this regime — that’s probably the right word to use, regime, not political power, but absolutely power-based regime.

Whatever is motivating them, I happen to find myself in this unforgiving attitude. Another friend of the three of ours, Jesse Kelly, has given great voice to this. And I’ll be real with both of you guys, I struggle because I want to be a person of forgiveness. I want to be a positive person and ready to move forward but I do believe we can’t move forward without some accountability.

I am not afraid, I am certain the Hakeem Jeffries of the world will move forward trying to convince everyone that their policies — that Joe Biden — delivered us from covid, and they will spend zero time on reflection, and they will pretend they did not mask our children for two years, they did not lock down our businesses for significant periods of time, and they did not instill fear in the population at large. And I just simply can’t forgive and forget the last two years.

CLAY: Amen, Will. I mean, and that’s why my argument is for everybody out there listening right now: As much anger and vitriol as you feel right now, don’t allow it to fade between now and November, all right? November needs to be a consequential election where the people who made these awful decisions regarding covid pay political consequences for those choices.

Otherwise, what is the point of an election if you don’t hold politicians accountable for what I think is the biggest public policy failure since Vietnam? For most of us out there, certainly those of us who are relatively young — and I’m using “young” expansively — Will, there’s never been anything that is this poorly run in any of your lives in America.

CAIN: Clay, and I’ll go a step further. I don’t think the reckoning is wholly at the ballot box, and I’m not talking about tribunals or public trials. But I am talking about the total and utter destruction of credibility. You say one of the biggest public policy blunders of our time. I would add to that one of the biggest propaganda drives in my lifetime, and I would suggest probably in at least a half a century.

So what we have seen is the perpetuation of you want to talk about the big lie? How about the multitude of lies that people like Dr. Anthony Fauci on down to mayors across this country have perpetuated on the American people with significant long term costs, most notably on our kids! But when this is done, Clay, Buck, when the rats have jumped on which the ship there will be some sad souls left like zombies shuffling around.

They have been… These are beyond the authoritarian power grabbers, this is the beyond the virtual signalers this is the true sad cost of those who have intermediates the fear. You may know some’ I know some. These are the people who actually aren’t cynical, who are sadly now mentally destroyed, and they will walk around in fear of something they can’t see for the rest of their lives.

BUCK: Speaking to Will Cain, cohost of Fox & Friends Weekend and host of the Will Cain Podcast, which is very excellent. I was just a guest on it recently. So go check out Will’s podcast. Will, to me I do wonder. Clay has some time at CNN, a little bit — little different. His —

CLAY: Very short-lived. Very short-lived at CNN.

BUCK: You and I, though, both spent some time over there. And, you know, with Zucker’s ouster, I just have to wonder if given now that all this stuff is really… What I would just call the edifice of Fauciism is just crumbling all around us in real time. Anyone who’s paying attention can see it. Do you think that there will be some people who will not only reflect internally, but will publicly begin to say, “Wow. We actually…”

Whether it’s CNN or the New York Times or anywhere else, “We called for the abuse of children and for the trampling of the Constitution and for the destruction of people’s mental health with little, if any, attendant benefit to their health.” Do you think we might see some shift? I mean, at some point is it so ugly and so immoral what’s been done, that even CNN will have some people say, “Yeah, we shouldn’t do that again”?

CAIN: No. Not in a moment of self-reflection. Can I say just for one moment the last thing Clay needs is any more ego boost.

CLAY: (laughing)

CAIN: But I remember a little bit like everyone in the older generation than us can remember where they were when JFK was assassinated. I can remember where I was when Clay said he loved the First Amendment and boobs on CNN.

CLAY: (laughing)

CAIN: I was in Las Vegas, Nevada, covering a boxing match for First Take on ESPN. I was set to go debate Stephen A. on Golovkin versus Alvarez, I think it was, and Clay said boobs on CNN. I didn’t know Clay at the time, but I knew that I would one day. (laughing)

CLAY: (laughing)

CAIN: Buck, to your point — and, by the way, I would say, you need to go check out the Will Cain Podcast. Buck was excellent about it if you want to know more about who Buck is as an individual a human being an individual and where we both have come together go check that out.

So Buck and Clay, you both know this. There won’t be self-reflection. Don Lemon will never look in the mirror and say did I get this wrong? That will not happen. But, Buck, there will be a different form of accountability. I think more specifically at CNN. I think we’re probably within 12 months of a total housecleaning at CNN.

BUCK: Fantastic.

CLAY: All right. This is going to be a hell of a pivot. It’s almost as big a pivot as we’ve seen the blue states making as it pertains to masks. Leaving aside the greatest public pelf failure in any of our lives, Sunday is the football, the Super Bowl game going on. Will, I am on the Rams as a four-point favorite. I think they win by double digits. I think Aaron Donald to be MVP Buck has no idea about any of that that I just said.

CAIN: (laughing)

BUCK: No idea.

CLAY: Zero.

BUCK: Zero.

CLAY: Will, what do you expect to see in the Super Bowl come Sunday?

CAIN: It’s gonna be boring. Look, I don’t know if they teach us to think the same way at Vanderbilt, University of Texas Law. I don’t know how we have ended up on the same side of so many issues, Travis, but I’m on the Rams. I’m on the Rams to cover. I’m going to place a nice little bet on Aaron Donald as your MVP. I think I get plus 1200 right now, and I’m gonna hedge that with a little bit of Cooper Kupp MVP. By the way, I think those are the most interesting bets, the must fun bets.

CLAY: I agree. Those are the three. And people can understand those, by the way. We’re gonna do a prop bet with Buck. I love prop the bets. But, Buck, I had Dub pull non-sports prop bets for you to be able to go head-to-head against me without needing any football knowledge. So you can have Super Bowl stakes games here. We’re gonna do that and be coming back at a break. But those are the three I agree, Will. Everybody can kind of have an opinion, and they aren’t overwhelmingly to make.

CAIN: Yeah. And so here’s the thing. In order to win MVP, what do you have to be? You either have to be quarterback or you have to be famous — and Aaron Donald is just famous enough, and so is Cooper Kupp, because the odds-on favorite — if you and I are right that the Rams win, then the odds-on favorite — is Matt Stafford wins MVP. But you don’t win any money picking the odds-on favorite. So take your long shots, take Aaron Donald, take Cooper Kupp.

BUCK: You guys might as well be speaking in Chinese for all I can all this.

CAIN: (laughing)

CLAY: (laughing)

BUCK: Anyway, I’m glad that everyone out there… I’m glad the rest of America knows what you’re talking about, ’cause I have no idea. Everyone check out the Will Cain Podcast and obviously tune in this weekend to Fox & Friends, which, I mean, it’s amazing. We got Will Cain, our friend Pete Hegseth. We got a great squad.

CLAY: Rachel’s great, too. She’s got a fantastic show.

BUCK: Great stuff there.

CAIN: And, by the way, on Saturday morning, President Donald Trump.

CLAY: Wow.

BUCK: Ooh.

CLAY: That’s a hell of a tease. That’s a big timer.

BUCK: Well done, Will, our friend, we’ll talk to you soon, buddy. Thanks for being with us.

CAIN: Thanks, guys.