Tudor Dixon’s Lessons Learned from 2022

BUCK: We have Tudor Dixon with us now. She just ran a heck of a race up in Michigan for the governor’s seat. Unfortunately, the awful Gretchen Whitmer is going to continue to be harassing Michiganders with her speeches and bad ideas for some time to come. Tudor, we appreciate you joining us. And I want to start out with when lessons learned from that campaign, from what happened in Michigan, you know, because 2024 is going to be here before we know it.

DIXON: Yes. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Lessons learned. I think we’ve learned across the country, we need a better ground game. Across the country, Republicans need to be out there and saying, “What is the ballot chase?” We see them doing it. We have backed away from it. We keep hearing Republicans come out and say, “We have to vote and one day.” That is not reality! They are voting for months before us, but they’re not just voting. They’re going out and making sure people vote. They’re getting those ballots back and we’re not doing that.

That is something that is so key, and that’s something that we have to change or we never win again. And it’s just got to be ingrained in people that this is how elections are now. And we see election laws passing. In Michigan, we had an election law passed that is really going to be pretty radical and it’s going to allow them to do whatever they want. But you know what? We have to look at this and say, “It allows us then that opportunity as well.” So we need to play that game and if we don’t play that game, we’re just not going to win.

CLAY: Tudor, thanks for coming on. So, I know when you finish your campaign, you put everything into it. You were just kind of telling us in response there to what you learned. What could have led to Michigan Republicans doing better? Because if you go look at the at the data, like nationwide, Michigan people really kind of took it on the chin, the Republican Party did. Is that a one-time thing, because you think there was an abortion referendum on the ballot in 2022? Will things be different in 2024? Obviously, Trump won Michigan in ‘16. It was relatively close in ‘20. What’s going to happen in ‘24?

DIXON: Well, I definitely believe that abortion was a part of it because Michigan was somewhat unique in that in in Michigan, when Dobbs the Dobbs decision was made, then we immediately reverted to a 1931 law that would ban abortion, except for in cases of life of the mother. And so the Democrats came out against all of the Republicans because, you know, this decision was made in, what, July? And the Republicans had all been endorsed by Right to Life. And so it was like, you know, you’re on the record saying that you are pro-life and then they can twist that into, “Because they’re pro-life, they will make sure you can never have this.”

And of course, they’re very emotional with it. “It’s taking your rights away,” and so Republicans across the state were just pummeled with this advertising, and there really wasn’t the money to go back across the state. There really wasn’t the funding to go back against this machine. The Democrats in Michigan had a massive amount of funding to just hammer us into the ground on this particular issue, and I really do think that that was incredibly successful. But do I think that that’s a one-time thing? I’m not sure. Michigan is very much a purple state. So the problem is that if we don’t figure this out in the next two and four years and we don’t win some of these seats back?

It’s going to be hard to bring it back to bring the majority back to the Republicans. So it’s key. This is the time when it is really key for Republicans to go, “We’re going to focus on exactly what it takes to win and make sure that we are — in the next year — putting that mechanism together, forming that organization that it takes to do this and then hit the ground running once these elections really start to unfold and once the campaigns really begin to unfold,” and we are we are playing the same game that they’re playing. Because if we do not win House seats back in two years and Senate seats back in four years, we are in danger of being a blue state for a long time to come.

BUCK: We’re speaking of Tudor Dixon. Tudor, if there is any messaging lesson that you have specifically for how to win Michigan — I mean, I know you were talking about that; that’s the state that you know the best. It’s going to be essential in 2024 that the GOP approaches it the right way. You’ve talked a bit about getting the machinery in place, which is obviously critical. It’s critical in Michigan, meaning the vote ballot harvesting or — where that’s legal — obviously registration, mail in voting — where that’s legal — those things true in Arizona, true in Michigan, true in Pennsylvania. What do you think, though, from a messaging standpoint? What needs to be said? What do Michiganders need to hear?

DIXON: Let me be raw and brutally honest here. In Michigan but I think across the country, Republicans have to come out with solutions and no complaining, and I think that that is something that we all have to go, “Well, what happened in 2016?” You had a presidential candidate in 2016 who came out and said, “I will absolutely make sure we are building cars in the state of Michigan again.” That was an absolute, and people went, “Wow, that’s what we want! You know, that’s what we want to hear.” And, “I will absolutely put you first. I will bring back blue-collar jobs,” and now that’s not the message that we’re hearing.

You know, we have to go back to we’re going to restore your life and affect your personal life and affect your pocketbook in a positive way, and that’s a key. That’s a key issue right now, especially for people in Michigan, because look at what we have going on. You have an electric vehicle industry that only survives if you have battery plants and batteries are so heavy and unwieldy and hard to ship that you are only going to have assembly factories if they are next to battery plants, and Joe Biden just awarded the funding for battery plants to 12 states.

Michigan was not one of them. So if you are going to come in as a presidential candidate — or any candidate, come in — to the state of Michigan and talk to people in Michigan, you better be talking to them about making sure that those auto jobs are going to stay in the state of Michigan. And also for parents, you know, Michigan is 40th in the nation for education. But what is the answer for that? What is the true answer? And that one’s tougher because we have a very strong union here, and they are not allowing these students to get back on track.

There’s not really a plan, and it’s not as black and white. You know, it’s not like you can say, “I’m going to bring factories back and teach kids to read.” It’s not like factories for making sure that you’re going to have a place to build cars. That’s not as black and white, but you have to have solutions. You can’t complain that the schools are so bad. You have to have a solution to make sure that the schools are better. You can’t complain that auto manufacturers are leaving. You have to have a solution to bring the auto plants back to Michigan.

CLAY: One of the things that we’ve learned by looking at some of these campaigns is a lot of the things that that typically have mattered a great deal — debates, for instance. Gretchen Whitmer got. I think so. Slaughtered by you in the debate. But Democrats are already voting —

DIXON: Mmm-hmm.

CLAY: — and by the time even some independents are. By the time those debates happen, we don’t have necessarily the same move in the polls. And if we do have those moving going on in the polls, then so many people have already banked their votes that they really don’t matter. We kind of focus on the October surprise or the last week, Republicans do for the ground game. You hinted at this with the first response, but did you feel that where a lot of the result was already baked before you even got the opportunity to make your case?

DIXON: Absolutely, and we have a lot of Republican donors who are like, “You know, I’ll see how she does. I’ll see if I think she can pull it off, and then if she impresses me, I’ll come in to the game,” and the interesting thing about the Democrats is they don’t care who the person is. If it’s a D, they support them all the way. If that’s the person who wins their primary, you have to believe that there are going to be millions of dollars that will flow to that person and every Democrat will come out and vote. You won’t see Democrats saying, “I don’t know if they personally impressed me.” It doesn’t matter if you’re braindead. It doesn’t matter if you’re actually dead these days. If you’re a Democrat, they’re going to vote for you. That is difference.

CLAY: Tudor, do you think do you think Gretchen Whitmer is going to run for president now? Are you concerned that that’s going to happen?

DIXON: Look at what we’re seeing right now. Something very, very fishy is going on in Michigan where we’re suddenly going to move up our primary. Even though suddenly that’s going to just totally annihilate the Republicans. We lose all of our delegates if we do this. Why did our legislature say, “This is a good idea; we want to vote for this”? This is a very, very suspect because the reason to do this is that you are going to have a Democrat primary. And the interesting part about this is, if you are looking at what is happening in Michigan right now, you’re looking at or key comments are coming out of Democrats?

The key Democrats in the state are saying, “We want people to come and campaign. Dearborn your jacket. We can’t wait to have people here in February,” and it and you have to go, “Wait a minute. They are having a primary. They already know it.” So, you know Joe Biden’s not running. The only reason to have this moved up in Michigan is because, you know, Gretchen Whitmer is going to win those votes in Michigan and then you’re going to push to have Gretchen Whitmer be the candidate nationwide. So, I believe 100%, yes.

I already can tell from the comments that we’re seeing. Joe Biden is not running. So this is going to be a big primary and we are going to try to put the person in Michigan at the top. Now, the only question is, you know, is, are people just saying, “I’m going to be in Michigan, and I will be the person who will win out Michigan,” and that’s why we want to move it up. I believe it’s Gretchen Whitmer. I am anxious to see what they decide to do. I don’t know why Republicans are going along with this right now, but I think Michigan right now is the state to watch when it comes to the ‘24 presidential election on the Democrat side, because they’re telling us things that people really aren’t paying attention to. But it looks like Joe Biden’s out of the race.

CLAY: Tudor, look forward to seeing you down here in Nashville in a couple of weeks — meet in person — and we appreciate you coming on the show and look forward to helping you as you figure out your political career going forward.

DIXON: Hey, thank you so much for having me on today.