Sen. Hawley: Ban Kids Younger Than 16 from Social Media

CLAY: We are joined now by Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri, fresh off having his speech stormed by a climate activist. Did you feel like you were Patrick Mahomes in the pocket, someone coming on your blindside?

SEN. HAWLEY: (laughing) I felt like I was meeting with Joe Biden’s next energy secretary, some climate wacko was shouting about how “China is not our enemy. The climate crisis is our enemy,” like, oh, I’ve heard those talking points before.

CLAY: So, this spy balloon thing. You tweeted out the other day in response to the CBS story about, hey, we’ve been tracking this since Monday. What I thought was so interesting — or sorry, not since Monday, for like a week before it arrived in Alaska — that you think maybe the national security apparatus knew about this spy balloon and they didn’t tell Joe Biden, which would raise a lot of alarming questions. What makes you think so?

SEN. HAWLEY: Well, because we know from news reports now that they tracked — that the intelligence community tracked — the spy balloon from the time it took off in China. So they knew about it. And we also know from news reports that Biden wasn’t informed about it until January 30th or the 31st after it had already gone across Alaska and was on the doorstep of Montana. So, it’s… Who’s in charge here? That’s what I want to know. I mean, apparently, they don’t think enough of the president to tell him. And I’ll tell you what else we know is that the general who’s in charge of keeping the whole domestic United States safe, what he told me and what he has said publicly is that he couldn’t shoot it down because he didn’t have authorization. So, my gosh! Where’s the president? What’s he doing with his time? Was he asleep. Is he napping? I mean, is he out for ice cream? Where is he? And why didn’t they tell him? It’s crazy stuff.

CLAY: It is wild. Do you think that’s unique to Joe Biden or do you think that’s a larger national security apparatus trying to run roughshod over no matter who’s in the White House?

SEN. HAWLEY: I think it’s probably worse under Biden, because I think what this shows is that they don’t have a lot of confidence in him. But, no, I do think, Clay, that this is something that probably has gone on before, and we have seen this from some of the top brass and some of the intelligence community leaders. Of course, they think they know best and they think, “Eh, we’ll just make the decision,” and that’s dangerous. I mean, in a country like ours, it’s supposed to be run by “we the people.” It’s supposed to be run by elected officials who can be held accountable. That’s a big problem. And that’s why I say the fact that the president is out to lunch on this thing for days? Man, that’s a huge, huge security risk.

CLAY: No doubt. Now, you have got a bill. We started yesterday’s show talking about this bill. You want to ban kids from using social media until they are 16 years old. We started yesterday’s show talking about the overwhelming increase — 30% of teenage girls have said they thought about suicide, 57% of them depressed. This thing just keeps skyrocketing. What do we need to do to protect our kids from social media, and I know part of this involves TikTok as well, which is Chinese owned. How would you assess the situation?

SEN. HAWLEY: Well, I think the situation is getting worse, and you’re a father and I’m a father of three and, you know, our kids are both young, are all young, I know, for both of us. But listen, you know, when I think about the changing technology and how hard it is to stay ahead of it… My 10-year-old, Clay, already knows more about my phone than I do. I mean, seriously. I — (crosstalk)

CLAY: Seriously, it’s the same thing here. My 12-, 8- and 15-year-olds can run circles around me when it comes to using an iPhone.

SEN. HAWLEY: Totally. So, when I hear these people say stuff like, “Well, it’s really a matter of the parents’ education,” I’m like, “Give me a break.” I’m like, “You know, I’m not the smartest guy. But, you know, listen, I mean, I am completely in the dark or nearly so when compared to my kids.” So I think setting 16 as an age threshold, you got to be 16 before the social media companies can target the kids, but the social media companies can open up accounts for the kids, and you put the verification on the companies, not the parents. And what we know from the data is the younger the kids are when they get on social media, the worse it is for them, the worse the mental health effects, especially with younger girls, actually.

But it’s boys and girls. So, let’s just shield those kids and give parents some power. The other thing we ought to do, Clay, is we ought to let parents sue the social media companies. I mean, listen, if your kid is exposed to material that is exploitative on social media, if your kid suffers major health and mental health consequences because of what the social media platforms are doing with their own design, you ought to be able to go and have your day in court. You’re a lawyer. I mean, this is the basic, fundamental right to go have your day in court. Let’s give that to parents. Right now, the social media companies are exempted and that shouldn’t be the case.

CLAY: Yeah, you know what? And I know you’re paying attention to this. The algorithms have to become, in some way, public because they are claiming, “Oh, we’re not content companies. People post their YouTube videos or their comments and we don’t choose who gets to see it.” The algorithm, 100%, Senator — as you well know — guarantees what kids see and don’t see, and they try to hide behind that. The algorithm is programed and created by an individual human. It’s not as if they’re not making choices on content on a daily basis.

SEN. HAWLEY: That is absolutely true. And these companies ought to be on the hook for their algorithms, both in terms of what they recommend to kids, what they expose kids to, and the content quote-unquote “moderation,” which is censorship. You know, we hear this a thousand times. “Oh, we didn’t censor. We didn’t. That was just the algorithm.” Oh, we know now from the Twitter Files that’s not true. These guys at these platforms — and I guarantee you it isn’t just Twitter — they are making the conscious choice to censor viewpoints. They don’t like conservative viewpoints, libertarian viewpoints. They don’t like them. On the covid vaccine, we saw it a thousand times over. They shut it down. You ought to be able to sue them for this. I’m a big believer in just get power of the people. The regulators, I don’t have a lot of faith in the regulators. So just allow the people to get into court, and if you get shadow banned or censored and the social media companies don’t follow their terms of service, allow people to sue ‘em.

CLAY: How many Super Bowls does Patrick Mahomes win — last question for you — and how long are you going to gloat about a second Super Bowl championship for your Kansas City Chiefs?

SEN. HAWLEY: I’m going to gloat right up until we win the next one next year.

CLAY: (laughing)

SEN. HAWLEY: (laughing) And who knows? Maybe he’ll get eight. Maybe he’ll… You know, he’s got a chance now to surpass Brady. He’s on track. I mean, it does make me… I tell you what. I’ll say this — and it’s the only nice thing I’ll say about Tom Brady, but I will say — that seeing what Mahomes is doing does make you respect what Brady has done over the long haul. But Mahomes, he is a generational talent. You and I have talked about this. Just see the way, Clay — I know you watched the game or were there.

CLAY: Yes.

SEN. HAWLEY: But just in the way that he adjusted in the second half, the time in the pocket, the time to release it, his throws, you know, faster and faster, just exploiting a very good defense on the part of the Eagles. But knowing that the quicker the release, the more trouble the Philly defense had with it. And to see the difference from first half to second half and that adjustment. I mean, you know, that’s pretty darn good. That’s an elite quarterback there. So, I think he’s got a lot left in him.

CLAY: He’s a savant. I know you’re busy, got to run down to the Senate floor. Thanks for taking the time with us today and enjoy that championship.

SEN. HAWLEY: Hey, thank you. Thanks for having me.

CLAY: That’s Senator Josh Hawley. Now, he’s fantastic, by the way, doing a great job in Missouri.