CLAY: Buck and I were talking about a topic that has gotten a lot of attention in general, and that is certainly the division exists between red state and blue state America right now. And for many of our lives, I would say there’s never been a more substantial division between red state and blue state America. And that doesn’t mean we haven’t always had disagreements.

There have been a lot of times where there have been many major issues that existed, but I’m not sure there’s ever been a time when people who live in red states like me… I live in Tennessee, spend a lot of time in Florida, Texas. The red state governors are where mostly freedom has triumphed. And then, Buck, who was a New York City native is a blue state guy — even though he’s got red state sentiments — and there have been complete lockdowns that have been going on in New York City.

Certainly I just posted a video of San Francisco’s mayor out doing what left-wing mayors and governors have been doing throughout the pandemic, which is flouting their own rules and breaking them like crazy when it comes to masks and the number of people that you can be around and all those things. But I know that Rush talked about this a little bit in some of his shows.

Hare’s San Francisco’s mayor out celebrating indoors without a mask, in direct conflict with her order requiring masks. Hypocrites gonna hypocrite, y’all. pic.twitter.com/nBKjmCwcS7

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) September 17, 2021

Certainly, it is a topic that has been getting a lot of attention, and Sarah Silverman is a comedian, but she brought it up recently and I want you to listen to this audio and then Buck and I are gonna kind of debate and discuss it, ’cause I do think it’s really gotten fascinating and it’s something that you may be talking about with your friends and family. Does it make sense for all 50 states, given our division now…? Is this like a divorce? Are we headed towards divorce? Listen to Sarah Silverman.

SILVERMAN: If people aren’t getting along, like, in relationship, they break up. You know? So, like, don’t we just finally just realize that these states aren’t working and, like, divide up into, like, two or three countries? Like, USA 1 and USA 2, and they can be USA 1. Like, the conservatives can be USA 1, because they love being number one and that… It means something to them. And I’d love to have that be theirs. So they can be USA 1. We’ll be USA 2. And we’ll be allies! And you’ll come over here, and we’ll go over there, and many times when you go to a different country you have to get a vaccine. That’s it.

Maybe we should break up. pic.twitter.com/AbxLes3XjL

— Sarah Silverman (@SarahKSilverman) September 13, 2021

CLAY: So this is really funny. She’s talking about it in a funny way. Obviously — and you know this, Buck, ’cause I’m a Civil War history nerd. We actually tried this back in the 1860s. This was the idea, that the South would have its own country and the North would have its own country — and ironically enough, even 140 years-ish after the Civil War we still kind of are breaking down in many of the same ways, right? The South is the red states, and the North is the blue states.

BUCK: Here’s what’s actually happening, people talking about, oh, my gosh. It’s not really, oh, the Texas secession movement or the Alaska secession movement.

CLAY: Yeah.

BUCK: Forget about secession. What you do have is polarization and consolidation going on. That’s actually occurring in real time. People are referring to them sometimes — I’ve just seen this — as “leftugees” like left-wing refugees from left-wing states.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: And it’s very clear. I mean, the Census Bureau data, the most recent Census Bureau data we have says that people are leaving — right now I know everyone’s saying, they’re going through in their head — California, New York, New Jersey, Michigan, total blue dominated states —

CLAY: And the Chicago area, Illinois.

BUCK: Yeah, Illinois’s high up to the list, too, but those were actually the top five. And the top five states that are getting people coming in — Clay’s gonna do a little bow here — Tennessee, Florida, Texas, Arizona, and Ohio, actually, which is interesting. So here’s what’s happening. You are seeing people voting with their feet. Now, I actually think this is in many ways a healthy thing. It’s a good thing that’s going on.

The only way that a governor… Well, Governor Newsom unfortunately thinks he’s a hero now. But the only way that a state like California realizes it’s too far left is if the tax base, a lot of middle-class folks, a lot of good people start to leave and it hurts them in the pocketbook. The problem, Clay, is that the system is supposed to work where we have all these states where people can have some freedoms protected. We have federalism, right?

You talk about this a lot on the show. But because of the federal government with both its overreach as it pertains to laws and regulations, we see this most notably with the mandate, but also all the ways the federal government will step in and fund what’s going on in these blue states. It does a sort of short-circuiting of the mechanisms of correction for poor governance in blue states.

‘Cause the outflow of people is real. They can’t argue with that. But as long as they can bring in, by the way, a lot of illegal immigrants into labor pool — which they do in New York and California particularly — as long as they have federal dollars coming in and federal rules and regulations, they can prop up the blue states and continue to annoy the you-know-what out of people in the red states, which is what’s going on.

CLAY: Yeah, and look, I think the big story of covid — and you kind of hit on this a little bit — is the red states are becoming redder, and the blue states are becoming bluer. And where I live, Buck, I’ll tell you this. This is a massive topic of conversation. I know there’s a lot of people in Texas and Florida. We’ve already seen it in Georgia, North Carolina, there’s a fear that the people that are coming in from the coasts are going…

They’re like locusts and (chuckles) they destroyed where they live, and they’re going to relocate to new states that are bastions of freedom, and turn them purple or bring their failed liberal politics to those states, continue to vote the way they were, and eventually destroy those states too. This is a big topic where people ask all the time.

People in my neighborhood, for instance, in my city and certainly in my state ask, “Hey, did you come here it’s because a red state or did you come here in spite of it being a red state?” And most people that I’m talking to now are moving because it’s a red state, and they’re the fed up with what’s going on in blue state America. But that fear is out there.

BUCK: My brother, my older brother who moved to Florida is now a permanent resident. He got his Florida driver’s license. He’s Florida resident after being a lifelong New Yorker. He said he’s at the gun store, one of the first places he went. This is what happens, by the way. Conservative blue staters go to a red state and they’re like, “Wait. I could just go into a store and buy a gun and then take it to a range, which will be accessible and friendly and nice and good place?”

You know, ’cause in New York City there’s only one gun range here and it’s meant to be as depressing as possible in New York City, and you can only fire a .22 rifle. There’s all kinds of rules. Unless you have a handgun permit, which is impossible to get. He goes to into the gun store in Florida and the guy selling the gun just like, “All right…” He can see he’s had a recent change of attitude he’s like, “Just make sure you vote the right way,” and (laughing), by the way, he did not mean vote for Joe Biden. So this is a real phenomenon that plays out.

CLAY: We should mention this, by the way, too, the data was out. Fifty percent of people buying guns now are women. That’s a pretty staggering number.

BUCK: That’s amazing, yeah. That is amazing.

CLAY: Kind of a crazy difference in terms of at least I think stereotypically when you think, “Okay. Who’s going to be registering and buying guns right now?” The fact that we’ve now hit 50% for women, I think it speaks to the defund the police movement/ I think it speaks to a lot of boyfriends and husbands out there that are like, “Hey, you may have been able to rely on the police in the past.

“But with crime surging, I want to take to you the gun range. I want you to learn how to use a gun.” Buck, you’ll appreciate this. My wife recently and her girlfriends did a girls’ date where they went to the gun range and fired weapons. All girls, girls’ night out. They all went and fired weapons, and these are people who are not…

I was born in the South. I think most Southerners in some ways are raised at least somewhat comfortable around guns when you’re a kid. My wife was not raised that way, but all these women I think, the fear of the rising crime rate has made gun ownership and gun range trips much more of a normal act, at least in red state America.

BUCK: Yeah, but I think that what you’re seeing right now also with the covid rules that have been implemented… It’s absolutely true about firearms. By the way, firearms have become such a huge cultural signifier. In blue states, knowing nothing about guns and never having fired a gun is almost —

CLAY: It’s a badge of honor.

BUCK: Yeah, with somebody who also is the most anti-gun, pro-gun control, terrified of guns, the whole thing. So ignorance is a badge of honor about Second Amendment for liberals, for libs. But also, with all the covid rules and regulations you’re seeing, it’s a reminder. I think people had started to lose a sense of “your governor really does matter.”

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: Your state government can really make a difference in your life. It’s not just, “Oh, you know, we’re all Americans, we’re all paying the same federal income tax, and the federal government makes all these determinations.” Unfortunately, the federal government does far too much. But at least if you are in a state, you have a fighting chance.

And this is why Texas, Florida people are moving to these places and making essentially the most powerful vote you can other than at the ballot box, which is, “Where are you gonna live? Where you gonna pay taxes as an American?” I had somebody just earlier this week. She’s a friend of mine from media.

She’s looking for a house to move permanently into Texas. I have yet to find anybody with a family come across anybody with a family who’s saying, “You know what I want to do right now? I want to move to Los Angeles and get some of that Gavin Newsom, Garcetti magic. I really want to try that.”

CLAY: You know what’s interesting, Buck? Federalism has never been more important, I don’t think, in any of our lives than during covid. Without Republican governors holding the line on freedom, on remaining open, on fighting lockdowns, I really think there’s a good chance we’d be Canada or, even worse, Australia, if Joe Biden and Dr. Fauci had their way right now.