Ohio Rep. Bill Johnson on the East Palestine Train Disaster

CLAY: We now are joined by Congressman Bill Johnson. He represents the area in Ohio that has been afflicted by this huge spill, the train spill that is continuing to cause more and more issues there. And, Congressman, I know there’s been a lot of details that have continued to come out about this, but there are people out there that are following this story in general. What happened and where are we now in terms of recovering from what happened?

REP. JOHNSON: Okay. Well, good. First of all, Clay, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Look, on the 3rd of February, a train carrying hazardous chemicals, vinyl chloride and some other chemicals were traveling through East Palestine, Ohio and the train derailed. What we are hearing from the National Transportation Safety Board is initial findings are that an axle on the train froze up and the bearings stopped turning some miles prior to getting into East Palestine.

The axle, actually, because of the heat that built up, actually disintegrated and it brought the train, of course, off the track and it led all the other cars off the tracks. That’s what caused the incident. There were 20 of the 50 cars that left track, 20 of them had hazardous or chemicals in it, including the vinyl chloride. At one point, once the accident happened, I got a call. I spoke to, not too long after that, the CEO of Norfolk Southern, the railroad company. And he explained to me that those cars with the chemicals were becoming unstable and as a result, they made a decision. It was the best of some bad alternatives.

They made the decision to control-burn or control-explode the tank cars with the vinyl chloride in it so they could burn that material off as it escaped and keep it from exploding organically. Had it exploded organically, he said, inside those tankers, it could have sent shrapnel for a mile. You’re talking about serious life, limb, infrastructure, homes, livestock. All kinds of problems had that occurred. Thankfully, that did not occur. Now, that’s what happened with the actual derailment. The National Transportation Safety Board, Clay, of course, is still in its investigation.

They said it will be a couple of weeks before we see a report. And all I’ve reported to you here are the initial findings. Now, where are we today? I was there on Monday, two days ago, and I’m going back again this evening for our town hall. But I was there on Monday. I toured the facility, the site where the actual fire and all the smoke and chemicals were coming from. I stood there at the epicenter with the mayor, the fire chief, county commissioners, the EPA, representatives of Norfolk Southern, the emergency management folks.

And the mayor gave me a briefing and he said, “Look”, he said, “for the most part, things have returned to normal, as normal as they can be in a short period of time.” The evacuation order had been lifted. When I got there on Monday, and the reason for that was because of the EPA finding that there are no hazardous air tests. There is no indication that there are chemicals in the air that are of a concern. There are no water issues in the village of concern. The water and the air are continuing to be tested and they should be. This is an ongoing process and those tests need to continue.

Residents are being cared for. They come to a church, actually, where Norfolk Southern has set up their kiosks to talk to people about their expenses, what they had to do when they were evacuated, giving them checks to cover those expenses and those kinds of things. So, as of Monday, when I left, they were still cleaning up the site. There’s still a lot of work to do to return it to its original appearance. But as far as the chemicals in the air, the chemicals in the ground, testing continues. But according to the EPA, the air and the water are okay. Now, I can only take them at their word. I’m going tonight and hopefully we’ll get more definitive information when we get there tonight.

CLAY: All right. That’s a great explanation of the entire situation there right now. You’re a congressman that represents this area, among many others. If you lived in East Palestine, Ohio, right now, based on what you have known and heard, would you be comfortable staying in your home? Would you drink the water as it came out of the faucet?

REP. JOHNSON: You know, Clay, that’s a good question. I think there’s a healthy skepticism on the part of the residents of East Palestine. And I don’t have a problem with their skepticism. I mean, you and I both know nobody trusts the federal government these days. Right? That’s a sad statement, but that’s the truth. But, I mean, the EPA and the state EPA are the ones that are responsible for enforcing and testing and making sure that the Clean Air Act, the parameters associated with the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act are adhered to.

They’re the ones that have the experts that make that determination. I mean, that’s as high up the ladder as it goes. So, I don’t think we take their word for it in the sense that we say, “Okay, deals done, must be okay.” I would insist on continued testing for a while. Here’s an example of that. The water is not just being tested by the EPA, the city, or I’m sorry, the village of East Palestine has its own village water system and they have their own system of testing their water. And they’ve been doing that for years. Right?

So, when I asked the mayor about that because I asked him a very similar question. He said, “Bill, we’re not taking anybody else’s word for it. We’ve got our people testing our water and our people have a vested interest in this, because guess what? They got to drink the water.” So, I’m telling you that what I’m being told is that the people there, the officials that are running the operation, the mayor, the water system people, they are convinced that these tests are showing that they don’t have anything to worry about.

But now back to your original question. I think if I had that kind of information, I might not return back there if I’ve got an infant, you know, that’s got to drink formula, that you put formula on it, shake it up. You know, I would have a healthy sense of skepticism. That’s why I went to Norfolk Southern and I said, “Look, explain to me how you came up with this one-mile evacuation area. What happens if somebody lives at 1.1 mile and they can smell the stuff in their home and they are concerned about their water? Who’s going to help them get their stuff tested and make sure it’s safe?” And so, I’m going back to Norfolk Southern asking them to expand their assistance program to the entire village of East Palestine, because everybody has the right to have their questions answered. And we should not minimize or just simply dismiss any question and any concern that any resident of that community has.

CLAY: Should the Biden administration, in particular, our transportation secretary, Mayor Pete, should they have been more proactive in discussing this situation? Should they be directly on the ground in terms of the transportation secretary himself, in your mind?

REP. JOHNSON: Well, I think so. I certainly think so. If I were the transportation secretary, I would be. I mean, you know, that’s what the pointed-end of the spear does when you’re in a leadership role like that. I really haven’t heard Secretary Buttigieg. I haven’t heard Mayor Pete talk about this unless he’s asked a question about it. I haven’t heard him come out and make a statement about it. And I can tell you what, Clay, he has not called me to ask me what’s going on.

CLAY: Does that strike you as strange that he wouldn’t call the congressman who represents this area since he’s the transportation secretary?

REP. JOHNSON: Absolutely. Absolutely. I call that failed leadership.

CLAY: Well, Congressman, we appreciate your time. You said you’re going to be in the community of East Palestine again tonight.

REP. JOHNSON: Yes, my concern, my focus right now is focusing on the needs and concerns of the people that I represent there in East Palestine.

CLAY: Thank you so much, Congressman. And will you please reach out to us again if there’s more information you want to get out or something changes on this story? We appreciate you making the time for us today because we’ve got so many questions about this. And unlike the transportation secretary, my first thought was “Hey, let’s reach out to the guy who represents this area and talk to him about it.”

REP. JOHNSON: Yeah, I think right now if I lived in East Palestine, I’d probably return to my home, Clay. I think based on what I got from the mayor and the boots on the ground there, I think significant progress has been made to make sure that it’s environmentally safe. Not stopping the testing. Shouldn’t stop the testing. It’s an ongoing process. But I’m convinced that it’s in a positive place.

CLAY: No doubt. Congressman Bill Johnson, we appreciate you for all that information, and then maybe we’ll talk to you again soon as this story continues to develop.

REP. JOHNSON: Okay. Thanks a lot, buddy.

CLAY: Thank you. It’s pretty strong language there, I would say, about Mayor Pete and his failure.