BUCK: Here are some words of insight from our he next guest. “‘If Joe Biden is found to have profited from Hunter’s business deals or used his position as vice president to benefit his family, Schoen wrote, ‘what is now likely a red wave election could turn into a massive blowout that is more substantial than anything seen in recent history.’”

That is Miranda Devine quoting Doug Schoen, a Democrat in her latest piece in the New York Post. She’s the author of Laptop from Hell, New York Post columnist Miranda Devine with us now. Miranda, always great to have you.

DEVINE: Great to be with you, Clay and Buck.

BUCK: So, it always feels like when the Democrats start to recognize that what the right is saying or the conservatives are saying is true and they’re saying it only because of the political liabilities they face that there’s perhaps a reckoning coming, how is this moving along as it pertains to Hunter Biden, the laptop, the investigation? People in this audience are pretty familiar with the basics on it; so where are we now and how does Tony Bobulinski play into all this?

DEVINE: Well, look. I think you’re absolutely right. The only reason that the New York Times and Washington Post and CNN and so on are paying any attention to this story or admitting that the laptop is real 18 months after we broke the story is because the Democrats are now starting to wake up and, I think, panicking about what is coming down the pike from the grand jury that’s been investigating Hunter Biden.

And partly you can see their mind-set because all these left-wing media organizations and Democrats and the White House are, yes, admitting that the story that we started running 18 months ago about the laptop are real and the emails and so on are authentic, but what they are also trying to do is create this new narrative in which Joe Biden is completely firewalled away, quarantined away from the mess of, not just his son Hunter, but his brother Jim Biden, where they’re running this influence-peddling scheme for the family internationally while he was vice president.

But that is really not a sustainable narrative because what we’re seeing, the morsels that are coming out of the grand jury investigation, I mean, that’s really hotted up. They’ve been interviewing a lot of Hunter Biden’s associates, his business partners, his ex-girlfriends, his baby mama, and I’m told that witnesses are being asked, who is The Big Guy? And that means that the grand jury is starting to ask questions, starting to pull on the threads that lead to Joe Biden, to the president.

Because The Big Guy is the name that Hunter and his partners used to refer to Joe Biden. It was sort of their code name. And we know that — I mean, the name is listed throughout the laptop but also Tony Bobulinski has come out and said he was one of Hunter’s business partners. He said that that was the name they used for Joe Biden. So I’m told that Joe Biden is a focus of the grand jury investigation.

CLAY: Miranda, thanks for making the time to come on with us. It’s always fantastic. So if you’re told Joe Biden is part of the focus of this investigation in the grand jury, to me what that ultimately means is, Joe Biden himself might get subpoenaed to testify in front of this grand jury. Have you heard any discussion about that? I would love, by the way, for — there’s a lot of media that listen to this show. I would love for the White House to be asked and see if they’re willing to go on the record whether Joe Biden would comply with that subpoena or whether he would fight it in court.

What do you know about the chances that Joe Biden himself, a/k/a, The Big Guy, may get called in front of that Delaware grand jury? Do you think that’s likely? Have you heard any discussion about that?

DEVINE: No, I haven’t. I think it’s unlikely, just gut feeling. But who knows? I guess it just depends how far these investigators want to go. They certainly have a trove of material. You know, they’ve been subpoenaing bank records. We know from just from the laptop that there are all of the clues about commingling of finances between — between Joe Biden and his son Hunter, shared bank accounts.

We know that, you know, I mean, for instance, there’s one email in which Hunter Biden’s sort of partner, the president of his firm, Rosemont Seneca, talks about accessing an account where Joe Biden’s tax check has gone, he says I’m going to deposit that tax check, I’m going to write, you know — write a check I think for you for that amount from Joe Biden’s bank account.

They were — you know, money was going backwards and forwards. We know that Hunter Biden of us paying — over several years paying bills for Joe Biden, you know, for upkeep and maintenance on one of his Delaware homes. He was paying a phone bill.

You know, and there’s other material. There are sort of strange bank accounts that are referred to with strange names referred to by Eric Schwerin, his partner. You know, he used to do Hunter’s tax returns. He used to help out Joe on paying his mortgage.

So, you know, we’re just seeing that with very limited visibility on the material that’s on the laptop, there would be investigators with subpoena power and visibility into all those bank accounts and if there’s any offshore accounts, they would have a lot of it access to that.

So I don’t know what they have exactly, but all I know is that they are looking at The Big Guy. And we also know that the White House has not come to grips with this story because, you know, just in the last couple of weeks when they’re asked a few questions at press conferences, we’ve had two different White House spokespeople say just absurd things, like, yes, we stand by what the president said in that debate when he said Hunter Biden hasn’t received any money from China.

That’s just not true. There are bank trails. Johnson and Grassley, the two Republican senators, have been putting up just in recent weeks some of those bank details, $6 million here, $5 million there. That’s just not sustainable. And then there was another question they were asked, you know, does the president stand by his campaign vow that he knew nothing about his son Hunter’s overseas business dealings? And the White House is still standing by that.

So they obviously someone has not sat down with the president and said, you need to tell us what’s going on so that we can answer these questions. But again, I don’t think there’s a lot of pressure from the media. What you’re getting from the Democrat friendly media is these attempts to whitewash the story, to keep Joe Biden out of it, and to just quarantine him from the muck that’s coming out from his son and his brother.

BUCK: One quick one for you, Miranda — Miranda Devine’s Laptop from Hell is a book you should all check out to get really up to speed on all this one. What is the possible next piece in this?

You know, we’re talking about 10% for The Big Guy, CFC in China and how it was essentially a front for the belt-and-road initiative of China and how using influence peddling ties into our biggest competitor on the global stage here, buying off now the first family, in essence.

What is the next bit of information that, if proven, you think takes this from a the crisis White House and the media can ignore as much as they are still trying to do so to full on political DEFCON 1? Like what is next thing we have to find out when they can’t ignore it?

DEVINE: Well, there are so many bits and pieces. But, you know, one is any evidence coming out to show that Joe Biden interfered, intervened in the decision to fire Victor Shokin, who was the Ukrainian prosecutor who was investigating Hunter.

BUCK: Which he bragged about on video for everybody. The video is out there.

DEVINE: Yeah, he bragged about it, but also it seemed that there was a change in State Department policy. Why did that happen? Is there evidence to show what — what swayed Joe Biden and made him sort of, you know, do something quite risky and intervene in this case?

BUCK: All right. Miranda, thanks so much. Miranda Devine, everybody, New York Post. Miranda, appreciate it.

DEVINE: Thanks so much.