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BUCK: We start, Clay, I think with our conversation, our ongoing conversation about natural immunity versus vaccinated immunity, which should have been a discussion in the entirety of the medical bureaucracies. It should have been talked about by Fauci. We should have had this open conversation.

It should have been appearing in Biden speeches for the last eight months or so. Hearing about the natural immunity number, hearing about where we’re heading as a country when it comes to herd immunity because of it. But as our friend Marty Makary — Dr. Makary — points out here, there has been an intentional effort by the people in charge to downplay and even undermine natural immunity.

DR. MAKARY: Hospitals — and businesses, for that matter — need to be more flexible with the vaccine requirement and really converted to an immunity requirement. Many hospitals have already started to do so because they’re not following the blind, indiscriminate guidance of the government. They’re following the guidance of science.

Science makes it very clear that natural immunity — which, by the way, many health care workers had from risking their lives on the front line. Many of them recognize that this is a form of immunity — and it may be, in fact, more durable than vaccinated immunity. So, St. Luke’s Hospital in Pennsylvania, Spectrum Health in Detroit, and many other hospitals are now saying, “Look, if you have natural immunity, we credit that towards an immunity requirement.” That’s what they’ve done in Europe and in Israel, and that’s what we need to move to here, or we’re gonna be dealing with severe supply shortages of staff.

BUCK: There is no excuse, Clay, as we know, for that standard not be instituted, and yet the Fauciites continue to fight it.

CLAY: They do, and at some point, Buck — and I don’t want to go full conspiracy theorist here. But don’t you at some point have to wonder whether that’s related to the amount of money that these companies get for every vaccinated individual when the government is funding this? They keep talking about the “free” vaccine, which is really not free, right?

We’re all paying for that vaccine through taxes. And it is so illogical to not be discussing it when in reality we know the data reflects and it keeps coming out of Israel — where they actually have, it seems, reasonable and rational data — that natural immunity protects us more, especially against the covid variant, the Delta variant, than the vaccine does.

And so, wouldn’t we want to know how many people have natural immunity? Wouldn’t we want to know if we were being reasonably intelligent adults if 77% of people now 18 and up have gotten at least one covid vaccine, which they have, wouldn’t it be reasonable to ask the question:

How many of the 23% remaining are not anti-vax, Donald Trump-supporting red state, redneck lunatic loser idiots, and how many of them are actually people like me — or the NBA player Jonathan Isaac who we played earlier — who already have natural covid immunity? Wouldn’t you want know about that 23%? In fact, let’s listen to Jonathan Isaac one more time. Let’s play cut 2.

ISAAC: I’ve had covid in the past and so our understanding of antibodies, of natural immunity, has changed a great deal from the onset of the pandemic and is still evolving. I understand that the vaccine would help if you catch covid and you’ll be able to have less symptoms from contracting it. But with me having covid in the past and having antibodies with my current age-group and fitness, physical fitness level, it’s not necessarily a fear of mine.

I would say, honestly, that the craziness of it all in terms of not being able to say that it should be everybody’s fair choice without being demeaned or talked crazy to doesn’t make one comfortable to do what said person is telling them to do. Yeah, I would say that’s a couple of the reasons.

CLAY: Hey, I’m starting to wonder, Buck, how many of these NBA players are gonna be looking…? First of all, Jonathan Isaac, credit. I would encourage you to go follow him. You can see that full video. I mean, super smart response from him. We also played you Bradley Beal. These are two NBA players who are refusing to get vaccinated because they’ve already had covid. They’re basically taking the same tack that I have so far.

How many of these NBA players are having a realization — maybe their own form of red pill moment — where they’re recognizing that the media who is covering them which, by the way, is demonizing them. Jonathan Isaac is getting crushed by the Blue Checkmark Brigade for having the audacity to not immediately be subservient to the vaccine oligarchs and go get his shot.

How many of them are starting to recognize this is an eye-opening moment for them where they’re starting to realize that that the media, which everybody says you have to trust and listen to, is fundamentally dishonest oftentimes? And it’s interesting, Buck, how quickly these guys have gone from, “Oh, we need athletes to use their voices!”

And as soon as these guys are raising questions, it’s like, “Oh, no, no, no, no! Not that way,” right? “Not that way! Not with that kind of intellect. We need you to tell us how great BLM is and how awful America is. We don’t need your opinion on whether or not the vaccine makes sense in your individual scenario.”

BUCK: There are very real consequences to all this as well. People trust the health authorities right now… The CDC, the NIH, and the Biden administration which oversees HHS, they trust them less than they would otherwise, with good reason because recently when Biden unveiled the mandates, when he gave that speech, there was not a single…

I remember ’cause I watched it and then I went back and read the transcript to make sure. There was not a single mention of natural immunity in the entire speech about how we get through covid. That’s deliberate. This is a choice that has been made to pretend that really the foundational truth of a pandemic — which is that people get sick, people survive, people get better; the population then is more protected — somehow doesn’t apply in the era of — to borrow from what I say the governor of New York wants — “in Pfizer we trust” or “in Moderna we trust,” as if these are celestial beings who have deigned to give us the answer here to the pandemic, Clay, when we know that it’s certainly not the answer they were promising a few months ago.

And we’ll see how much longer it even lasts into the winter period. But of course people are gonna be asking questions about this, and of course it’s can be counterproductive. Back to our friend Dr. Makary, he says that since the White House announced the vaccine mandates, here’s what’s actually happened when it comes to people getting vaccinated.

DR. MAKARY: You know, it’s a mischaracterization, and it’s inaccurate, and it’s scientifically imprecise. And if we really want to do everything we can to reduce the avoidable harm, that is people dying today are adults are no natural immunity and no vaccine. That’s where we need to focus our efforts right now. If you look at the blanket and indiscriminate vaccine mandates that came from the White House after they were announced, vaccination rates on a daily basis have gone down 20%. That is, we were doing about 810,000 a day, and now we’re down to about 650,000 a day. That’s because it hardened people who see the overreach of government. Those are the people we want to encourage to get vaccinated, not alienate.

BUCK: People see the blunt force trauma of government overreach, and in this country, they rightly react with revulsion. Now, they’re still making decisions about whether maybe at this point they get vaxxed if they haven’t or not. And we on this show have been very clear, people at high risk we advise because we say everyone, even Alex Berenson —

CLAY: I told my parents yesterday at dinner, Buck. I told me them, “Hey, you should probably go get the booster.” They’re 77 years old. As we get ready for fall and winter, I said, “You get a flu shot every year; I would encourage you. Even though you’re frustrated with the Biden communication, I think it makes sense as your son, I’m telling you I think you should get the booster.” I would tell everybody that who’s listening to us that’s over 75.

BUCK: Absolutely and for a lot of people they would even say err on the side of caution if you’re 65 and up.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: You see, though, what has been done to us in this country, even. We haven’t gone quite as far as Australia, but the only reason Australia has been able to justify in its own mind — the state there has been able to justify — the extreme measures, is because it’s an island and they were able to cut off travel. So they think they just masked up properly. But that’s a delusion.

And it’s a delusion that’s led to a country of 25 million people where they have now months of Sydney being under 9 p.m. curfew. They have people that are getting tackled out in the streets for wearing a mask and being in public. There’s a radius, a distance that you’re allowed to be from your home. If you go beyond that…

They’re giving people $3,000 fines, Clay, for breaking some of these idiotic covid protocols. Any government official who thinks they have a right to prevent you from being out in open fresh air and force you to breathe through a cloth because they say so, is a tyrant! We need to remember this. They were a tyrant, by definition.

CLAY: It’s also predicated, Australia’s entire policy, on the idea of Covid Zero, which is a fallacy which is not going to exist, which Dr. Fauci continued to sell up into and through May. This idea that we were going to eradicate covid — like we eradicated smallpox, for instance — that’s what they were selling. And in Australia, it’s like it slowly dawned on them.

Yes, we’re an island, and, yes, we’ve been able to restrict travel, but we can’t shut down Australia forever. At some point, we’re gonna have to return to normal life. And when that happens, it’s likely that because there’s almost no natural immunity in Australia, it’s gonna spread through there like wildfire because they’re not gonna be able to reject the virus. “Virus is gonna virus,” as our buddy Alex Berenson says.

BUCK: And as one thing that I think we’ll see continue to play out is, they don’t want to get answers about the societal costs here to all of this. Like the people that would normally be looking into how bad is the learning loss of students in this country? What has it meant for poor people — I mean, truly poor, not poor by American standards — around the world to have so much economic disruption? What has it meant in countries like India, for example, where they instituted all these policies and suffered horribly from covid anyway? We can’t get honest answers from people.