CLAY: Buck, what percentage of Americans do you think would agree with our discussion when we said, “Hey, if you’re under 18 years old, you shouldn’t get any form of gender-reassignment surgery”?

BUCK: Say, 75%.

CLAY: Yeah, 75 or 80%. It may even be higher than that, and the reason why I bring it up is, what they are trying to do is convince you that you are on the fringe, outside of the mainstream media of society if you have that opinion and it is an unacceptable opinion to have and it is a very calculated choice to be making. Again, I am saying — and everybody out there can have different opinions on this — just wait until you’re 18 years old.

Wait until you are 18 years old, ’til you’ve reached the age of majority, to have surgery like this. Now, I think it probably would be better to wait even longer just to kind of make certain that you want to make a choice that is that long lasting in your life, would be my opinion. But the idea that we’re allowing under 18-year-olds to be treated like this, to be treated as if this is a medical condition is a fringe idea, that they’re trying to make it seem like is not a fringe idea? That’s the clear intent right now.

BUCK: And can we just be clear? It’s obviously a radical change that they are proposing to societal norms here, and so instead of admitting that and saying, “Hey, it turns out there’s this whole new realm of belief and science and ideology that means that kids can, you know, be trans at age 6 or age 4 and need to be told about this,” they just say, “Do what we say or else you’re a bigot!”

They go on offense right away. They act like we’re the crazy people — and, Clay, no 10-year-old thinks about gender hormone or transition surgery without adults advocating for it, and there are already states where if you don’t “gender affirm,” if you gender… First of all, yellow line that terminology because it’s actually… It’s transition. It’s not “affirm.” It’s not even really change. It’s doing something else to yourself — and if you don’t do that, you can be held liable under state law.

CLAY: Yeah. And look at what Senator Chris Murphy is trying to do. We just said — and Buck and I may not be perfectly right on this, but I think 75 to 80% is a reasonable number of American adults that believe that children should not be treated with gender changing drugs, with gender changing surgeries when they are minors. Well, Senator Chris Murphy, he wants you to know, this is “the Trump wing” of the Republican Party that has declared war against transgender kids. That’s what they’re saying. Listen to this.

Last night I just had enough. I’m sick and tired of transgender kids getting bullied. So I went to the Senate floor to call out the adults who relentlessly and shamelessly target these kids.

I hope you’ll watch this. pic.twitter.com/COK6QSGZy4

— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) April 8, 2022

BUCK: So Senator Murphy, he’s a moron.

CLAY: This is not true at all.

BUCK: Let start with this, Clay. And also does he know the data on the longtime implications of suicide for people who do transition? Because their suicide rate is astronomically higher after transitions, by the way.

CLAY: Because there is, I believe, the idea that if — sometimes people make the decision if I just changed this, then everything would be perfect in my life. Everybody out there knows. And sometimes it can be true, right? Sometimes if you’re an alcoholic and you stop drinking alcohol, your life can change in a big way. There are things you can do that represent substantial changes that make you healthier, that make you better off.

Say, if you’re a drug addict and you leave behind drugs. But there are a lot of people, I think, who are unhappy teenagers, 13 or 14 years old, and they think, “Oh, the reason why I’m unhappy is because I’m not comfortable in my own skin, in my own gender. If I just change my gender, I’d be happy,” and then what happens, Buck, some of these people change their own gender and then they aren’t any happier. But the idea here is not that you say that transgender kids are awful or that they don’t deserve respect. You just say, “Wait until you are an adult to make a life changing choice, just like we do with marriage or driving a car.”

BUCK: Dr. McHugh says about trans children? They just need love and good parenting and support until they’re adults, and then see where they are.

CLAY: Yeah.

BUCK: Pretty straightforward.

CLAY: That’s eminently rational. That’s the choice I think that should be made everywhere.