BUCK: Our friend Joe Borelli, city councilman from the great Staten Island, is with us now. Mr. Borelli, always a pleasure.

BORELLI: Great, guys. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

BUCK: So, first, will you tell us…? The mayor is announcing today this new rule. What has been the problem for Kyrie Irving of the Brooklyn Nets playing up to this point? What has the policy been? How is it going to change?

BORELLI: Right. So the reason we’re here, even discussing this is because New York City is one of the few places on earth that still has private-sector vaccine mandates for all employees, not just city workers or health care workers or something that arguably makes sense on some level. The City of New York played vaccine mandates on all private employers, including the Brooklyn Nets, including the New York Nicks, the Mets, and the Yankees, and everything.

That put people like Irving, at a competitive disadvantage, because he couldn’t actually play in the Barclay Center against other teams whereas they could have unvaccinated players, who could play without any sort of problem whatsoever. Obviously, this made no sense. I’m glad the mayor withdrew this mandate because it was silly from the get-go. But as you correctly pointed out, the right answer is to eliminate the mandate overall, or to have never put it on in the first place.

CLAY: Yeah. Joe, I appreciate you coming on. This is Clay, and obviously I come from a sports background, so the absurdity of this… By the way, Kyrie Irving could watch Duke and Virginia Tech play at the Barclay Center. He could go watch the Knicks and the Nets play. He could sit in the front row as a fan. Have a beer. Not wear a mask, hang out. But he wasn’t able to play in the games. It made no sense; it needed to be rectified.

But as you rightly point out, there are a lot of firemen, there are a lot of police officers out there, many of whom are listening to us right now in the New York City area who are saying, “Wait a minute. Why should the Mets, the Yankees, and star basketball players the bet a different vaccine mandate requirement than the rest of the public?” Is this difference in treatment, in your opinion, Joe, going to continue to fester and grow, as many people say, “Why should the rich and famous have a different standard applied to them than the regular working guy and girl out there?”

BORELLI: Clay, I have spoken to progressive colleagues of mine who have been covid crazy from the get-go and this is actually the straw that broke the camel’s back where they can’t understand why we have two classes of people. Like you pointed out, we fired 1,400 people — our teachers, our firefighters, our EFTs, the guy who cuts the grass in the parks, for goodness sake — and we’re allowing this system to exist, where fancy people don’t have to do it. What about the ushers in the same arena?

CLAY: Great point.

BORELLI: What about the ticket punchers? What about the hot dog vendors? What about all the regular people that rely on their job in the Barclay Center who aren’t fortunate enough to be NBA players? I mean, this is really, really, a system of discrimination between people based on their income and their elitism and their status. It’s unfair. The mayor should just cut it and eliminate it for all people, and rehire our employees immediately, and maybe even give them their back pay.

BUCK: We’re speaking to our friend Joe Borelli from Staten Island in NYC. And, Joe, you as somebody who works in and knows New York politics like the back of your hand, you get to see, you know, the inside of the politburo, shall we say? You’re familiar with the feelings, the sentiments of some very far-left legislators, officials, et cetera, in New York and in the Tristate Area. I’m just wondering, did any of them…?

‘Cause you’re saying that they finally… This broke the camel’s back, so to speak. That there are clearly, if you’re Kyrie Irving and you’re really important because the Nets may or may not get into the playoffs, Clay. I’m seeing he’s got to win some games. If you are really important, you make a lot of money. You have a different set of rules. Fine.

But Kyrie Irving was willing to sit in the stand recently at the Barclay Center, for I believe it was a Nets/Knicks game, but he wasn’t able to play, and other teams players who were unvaccinated were allowed to be on that floor playing. Do any of the libs in the city council or state legislature or anywhere that you know think that was normal or made any sense? I mean, that had to be crazy too, right?

BORELLI: No. I think if you’re looking for logic in the vaccine policy as it was administered to professional athletes, you will never find it. You will never find it from conservatives, from liberals, or anyone even knowledgeable on public health policy. There was never a rationale to do this that actually protected people. But look, it goes even deeper than that, why progressives are starting to come back around on this.

It goes deeper, because upper middle-class people/rich people who weren’t even in finance, in insurance on Wall Street, things like that. Those people, if their companies were happy with them, if they were earning money for their stocks desk, their trading desk, the companies weren’t firing them. They were letting them work from home. It’s only the poor people. It’s the guy selling hot dogs in Manhattan. It’s the guy in Taco Bell in Midtown. It’s the person who is a doorman. It’s a person who is a maid at a hotel.

Those are the people that could not just work from home, even if their company was happy for them, and those are the people that are leading us, New York City, to have an unemployment rate that is double the national average. Covid hit everyone. The recovery has not hit everyone. And it’s only, not coincidentally in places like this, where we have an extreme private sector vaccine mandate, where we still see the lack of a return of private sector employment.

BUCK: Joe, do you buy in that the reason why the mayor changed this….? Because he kept saying, “I’m not going to change the rule for Kyrie. I’m not going to change the rule for Kyrie.” We don’t know exactly which Yankees and Mets players were involved, but there’s a lot of rumors that many of them were superstars. Is it because the mayor had received a lot of political contributions, allegedly, from some of the ownership group from the Yankees and the Mets?

And given the fact that baseball is playing outdoors, he wasn’t willing to suffer the slings and arrows of the response on this? Break down why suddenly after arguing for several weeks since he took over, “I’m not going to change the rule for Kyrie. I’m not going to change the rule for Kyrie,” it’s awful amazing that he suddenly changed the rule just in time for major baseball season starting.

BORELLI: I think it’s no longer passing the sniff test than corruption or anything like that. Because in truth, if you think who supports New York City mayoral candidate, it’s actually the municipal labor unions more than anyone else who was bankrolling people like Eric Adams, and those are people that face firing and some of the members did get fired. So I think it was his public perception of looking silly. It’s more about having the continuous reason for the Yankees losing and the Mets losing, because Eric Adams wouldn’t let so-and-so (crosstalk).

CLAY: That would have been an unbelievable story, by the way, if we had seen all those players not able to play in New York and the outrage that would have ensued.

BUCK: It sounds like they would have practically had to call some fans in and be like, “Hey, who is going to be at third base?”

CLAY: I don’t know how… I honestly don’t know how it would have worked, roster-wise, depending on how many guys weren’t eligible to play. Joe, are you a Yankees or a Mets fan, which one?

BORELLI: I thought you were going to ask me to play third base.

CLAY: (laughing)

BORELLI: I’m a Yankees fan. But, look, I’m more of a Ranger fan than anything else, and some of the leagues were able to adapt, as you pointed out. But I think when you’re talking about a depth chart that would have included some major, major big money players.

CLAY: Yep.

BORELLI: Nobody wants to bear the embarrassment of being the reason why the Mets have — or the Yankees can’t make it to state this year.

BUCK: By the way, Joe… We’re speaking to Joe Borelli of the New York City council. So is there already discussion about getting rid of the…? You know, it’s hard to keep up. I live here, and I’ve been subjected to it. Clay gets to live in freedom and happiness in Tennessee.

CLAY: Freedom zone! Yes.

BUCK: I have to deal with the madness in New York, as you do. Are they going to get rid of the lingering private sector vaccine mandate rules? Where does that stand?

BORELLI: Well, as soon as I get off the phone with you, I’ll leave my office in City Hall, go across the rotunda to the council chamber, and give a speech and ask for support from council members who have told me privately — and I’ll call them out if they don’t speak publicly, that have told me privately — This is enough. It’s over. The pandemic is over and it’s past us. (garbled cell)

By the way, New York shouldn’t be celebrating any of its mandates, because when you look at the data from this city and this state compared to other places, we actually were not a leader on covid. We did worse than most places who had minimal — and in some cases extremely minimal — mandates in place. So we shouldn’t really be celebrating our success. We should be celebrating the fact that we’re over it, and we’ll see how it goes. We’ll see what they say.

BUCK: Joe, I want to ask you about the 1,400 people you said who lost their jobs for refusing to get this covid shot. You said you would like to see them rehired and maybe get their backpay. I agree with you a hundred percent. What sort of recourse did those employees have, the men and women who aren’t making a lot of money? They’re not Kyrie Irving. They’re not Yankees and Mets superstars. But they were willing to stand for the courage of their contradictions, and not get this covid shot. What sort of recourse do they have now?

BORELLI: Unfortunately, the rules get more complicated when you’re talking about the employer — in this case the city and de facto of the mayor — making rules for their own employee. There’s a lot more leeway for employers to do that for their own people. But when it becomes a mandate and becomes arbitrary and capricious, which now there’s no rationale to say it wasn’t both of those things, they do have recourse.

We lost some lawsuits fighting for these workers for a number of reasons. In some cases, because the union themselves conceded as a negotiating point. In other cases, because simply the mayor had the power to do that. Now, with this Kyrie Irving, I’m not sure if they fully thought out the legal ramifications that would come if these people aren’t reinstated.

BUCK: Joe, before we let you go, Clay made me fill out my first bracket this year. He shamed me into bracketology.

CLAY: (laughing) Can you believe, by the way, Joe that he’s never filled out an NCAA tournament bracket in his life?

BORELLI: You wouldn’t have done well in Staten Island, Buck.

CLAY: (laughing)

BORELLI: There’s a big underground bracket mob going on right now in the fifth borough.

BUCK: Well, so far, I got to say, my beloved Villanova Cougars are looking great.

CLAY: No! No! No! You like Cougars, but they’re the Wildcats.

BUCK: Wha…? Cougars, hey.

CLAY: Wrong cats.

BUCK: Those are nice too.

CLAY: Wildcats. I think that was a Freudian slip by the way.

BUCK: I love The Wildcats.

CLAY: (laughing)

BUCK: Villanova Wildcats. Joe, who do you have to win the whole thing?

BORELLI: By the way, I’m so caught up in the St. Peter’s fervor —

CLAY: I know. It’s impressive.

BORELLI: — because they have been this small college right next to Staten Island. You know, a lot of my friends had gone there over the years. So I can’t see much beyond them and I’m pulling for them a hundred percent, so people listening are probably supporting them as well. So all I’m going to say is, “Go St. Peter’s!”

BUCK: Our man Joe Borelli. Go check him out. Follow him on Twitter. He does great stuff. He’s one of the few sane voices in politics here in New York City out in Staten Island, which has some great Italian restaurants by the way. Joe actually took me to one; we had a good time. Oh, no, actually, I took him because I lost a bet. I lost a bet.

CLAY: This is true.

BUCK: Yeah. That’s right. That happened. Joe, thanks so much, man.

BORELLI: Thanks, guys.