BUCK: Just wanted to note that we have seen and there’s certainly a lot of people out there who are mourning right now the passing of Colin Powell, former secretary of state, soldier, general, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. You all remember him from several administrations. He passed away of covid-19 complications while battling multiple myeloma, cancer.

The people we will see all across TV who knew him will be talking about his legacy and go into a period of mourning, and perhaps we’ll have some discussion about that era of foreign policy and the role that Colin Powell played. But for right now just thoughts and prayers to his family and Colin Powell rest in peace. I’ve seen some people trying to politicize, in some way, the fact that he was double vaccinated.

He’s 84 years old and battling cancer; so no one thinks… At no point did anyone believe that if you’re 84 and vaccinated you’re 100% going to be okay, especially if you have a condition like myeloma that you’re battling. So I do not think that’s really going to be a discussion. But right now, Colin Powell is somebody they’re paying their respects to. So wanted to say that.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

CLAY: We talked about it earlier and we certainly want to wish and give our condolences to Colin Powell’s family. Legendary secretary of state, great servant of the American people, he died — and news came out this morning, I believe, about Secretary Powell dying. It may have been late last night that that news broke. But he was also double vaccinated. Now, I’m not the kind of person and I know you aren’t either, Buck — to try…

We’ve been arguing against this quite a bit, because of the sort of the ghoulish nature of if somebody turns down the covid vaccine and then they end up dying of covid you have all these pictures of them in the hospital bed and there have been certainly people in media doing what we do who haven’t gotten vaccinated that ended up dying.

BUCK: They always have quotes in these stories too, at the end, saying, “Oh, I wish we’d gotten vaccinated,” in the headline of the story. I think it’s gross what they do.

CLAY: Yes, and so we’re not gonna be talking a great deal about the fact that Secretary Powell died despite double covid vaccines of — his family says — covid, because he was 84 years old. He had multiple health-related problems.

BUCK: He had multiple myeloma. He had a very serious cancer that actually is highly immunosuppressive. So he is somebody who… I think we had Alex Berenson on, anybody, they’d say, “That’s a situation where you’re at high risk regardless. There is high risk regardless.”

CLAY: But the conversation is being stifled. I believe we have audio of a question being asked of Kamala Harris, the vice president, about this. And it’s cut off and not allowed to even be mentioned, basically. I haven’t even heard this audio. Neither of us has, Buck, but we’ve got it for you.

HARRIS: Because of what he was able to accomplish, it really did elevate our nation in so many ways. So may he rest in peace.

REPORTER: What is your message for Americans who know that he was fully vaccinated with covid who are now remain skeptical —

VICTOR BLACKWELL: All right, uhh, there Vice President Harris (sputtering), ummmm, uh, they’re speaking about, uhh, the late, uh, secretary of state, General, uh, Colin Powell.

BUCK: Clay, we are two people who’ve done a lot of TV, right?

CLAY: Yeah.

BUCK: That was a conscious decision probably spurred on by a producer, I would say, but maybe not, maybe just by the anchor there, a conscious decision to cut and talk over the question about now-deceased former secretary of state Colin Powell’s vaccination status. And I will say this. It is so damaging that the people that push all of this, “Listen to the science, shut up and do what we tell you,” really seem to think that people do not, especially people in a free country like America…

For as long as it remains free which is starting to feel like not that long from now. But we’ll see. Saying, “Shut up, you can’t talk about that,” does not instill confidence. Shutting down discussion of complicated and nuanced issues as any mass-health situation like this is, and just telling people, “Be quiet, we’re gonna ban you, we’re gonna coerce you, we’re gonna arrest,” whatever it may be, doesn’t actually make their concerns go away. It elevates their concerns.

CLAY: You’re a hundred percent right. And, by the way, the answer to that — and I don’t know what Kamala Harris said. The answer to that should be, “If you look at the data and the analysis, covid vaccine doesn’t eliminate your chances of dying with covid.” It doesn’t, period.

BUCK: At best, remember in the earlier days when Fauci was doing little Fauci back flips and everything, it was always 95%. They thought it was 95% protective is what they said. Now, what we’ve been talking about on this show is that after six months, it’s more like 50% efficacy, which is basically “maybe it helps you.” Then they say, “Well, it prevents severe illness and death,” but that also may fade, that protection, in time.

But even at the very beginning there was a possibility. And if you were somebody who’s 84 with cancer, you were more likely to fall into that 5% that were always going to be unprotected. See, we can be and will be honest with our audience about these things. Now, that’s not to say we should have a discussion or you shouldn’t be able to talk about this at all. It’s just to say that’s what the numbers would tell you.

CLAY: Yeah, and look, my dad, happy birthday to my dad —

BUCK: Oh, really? Happy birthday, Mr. Travis.

CLAY: — 77 years old, actually yesterday. But I saw him today to be able to celebrate. So he’s 77. And my mom is the same age. And they both just went and got their booster shots ’cause I told them, “Hey, given your age, it makes sense to get vaccinated and to get your booster shot.”

BUCK: I told my dad to get his booster last week.

CLAY: That’s right. But it doesn’t protect you from ever getting covid and dying from it and it provides some protection, and that’s better than none, certainly. But that’s the kind of answer that in an intelligent, nuanced discussion would provide. Instead, CNN cuts it off. I don’t even know what Kamala Harris said in response to that. But this is going to be — and a lot of you out there know. You’ve got friends and family who got covid vaccine and still tested for those, quote, “breakthrough cases,” which are actually pretty commonplace.

BUCK: Right. So I guess one thing that’s important to keep in mind here — and we will allow this. We’re not gonna, like, shut down the question obviously. We want to have as much of an open, the intellectual discourse as we can, every day on this show. I think it’s one of the mission statements of the show.

But there’s a difference between somebody who is 84 and has cancer who hasn’t vaccinated and succumbs to the virus, and somebody who, let’s say, is 45 and fully vaccinated and still gets pretty sick and maybe gets hospitalized. That’s a breakthrough case that you’d say, by the numbers, starts to make you think, “Well, how effective is the vaccine in the aggregate?” Whereas if you’re 84 and already battling cancer, it’s just…

This is all about the numbers, folks. It’s all about the different risk factors which is also why, though, because of these layers of nuance there should be more room for people to make their own decisions, because this is not black and white. This is not as straightforward as they’ve been telling us all along. We all know that. Ron Johnson, I will say this: When he talked about those numbers, I’m assuming that’s what’s been reported in the VAERS database.

CLAY: Over 16,000 deaths.

BUCK: That’s…

CLAY: A lot.

BUCK: I’m sure people hear that; that’s stunning. That doesn’t sound like what the number is at all. We were talking about the one report of the woman in Oregon who did die from the blood clot from the J&J vaccine. Full stop. That is what happened. That’s what the health authorities, medial authorities say.

CLAY: Otherwise completely healthy, would not have gotten the vaccine.

BUCK: So given that we’ve had over 60% of the country vaccinated… I should check to see what the actual number is. Fully vaccinated, sorry, 57%. I’ve gotta get the numbers right. We have 57% fully vaccinated until of course the boosters become part of full vaccination, in the U.S. right now, okay, so how many of those VAERS events, Clay, were actual deaths caused by the vaccine? I want to know. I don’t know the answer. I want to know the answer. How is it possible we don’t all have that data?

CLAY: Great question. How is it possible that we don’t know — of the people who are testing positive for covid now — what percentage of them are vaccinated? What percentage of people? We don’t know.

BUCK: What percentage are hospitalized?

CLAY: Yeah. What percentage are dying? We still don’t know that very basic information, which I think would be important for individuals out there to make the choices.

BUCK: You know I don’t like conspiracies, Clay.

CLAY: Yeah.

BUCK: Because I’m a CIA guy and people think that I know everything about the space landings and aliens.

CLAY: Area 51.

BUCK: Yeah, Area 51. I didn’t learn anything that cool in the CIA. Of course, “I can neither firm nor deny.”

CLAY: (laughing)

BUCK: That’s what a CIA guy would say. But it does start to feel a little bit like they don’t really want to collect the data on how many breakthrough cases there are — how many hospitalized, vaccinated people — until they’ve at least had a couple of months of booster shots going into people’s arms.

CLAY: I’m with you. This is information that we should have as an American public. We know that England has that data. We know that Israel has that data. Why doesn’t the United States have that data?

BUCK: Why would our data be so different than theirs is what I would like to know, meaning the out ome, ’cause that outcome would be highly concerning. Israel has essentially turned the wave downward of hospitalizations and deaths of the fully vaccinated with their boosters. But then that’s what we would expect to happen here, too, and are we ready for that? Are we prepared for that? What is the situation as it unfolds?