CLAY: Joining us now is Megyn Kelly, who has a very successful podcast, and she was smart enough to have both Buck Sexton and myself on that podcast recently. And, Buck, you say in your career, some of the first media you ever did was with Megyn.
BUCK: I always love telling this story. The first prime time Fox News hit I ever did was on the Megyn Kelly show.
CLAY: How nervous were you, by the way?
BUCK: How old was I?
CLAY: How nervous were you?
BUCK: Oh. Clay. I’m ex-CIA. I don’t get nervous.
CLAY: (laughing)
BUCK: But so I go on air, and it was Megyn having — and I remember actually, it was Ellison Barber who I think went on to become an actions reporter and one — I forget who the third person was but there were three of us on a youth panel on Megyn’s show it was very nice for her to have us on and then I said to one of the producers… They were talking about the NYPD intelligence division; they had some lawyer on to talk about it.
I just kind of — ’cause I was a little quieter then about things. I said, “Hey, just so you know, the unit you’re talking about, the surveillance unit, I was in that unit if you want me to talk about what we were actually doing,” and then Megyn very kindly had me on for an A Block of her show and many times after that. Megyn had many of the, dare I say, smartest up-and-coming conservatives on. That was kind of part of her brand, I would say, on her show at Fox, and now she’s with us here. So yes indeed, thank you, Megyn.
MEGYN: Thanks, guys. That was a nice wind up. Yes, Buck, it was clear to me back then that you were a star, and that was my only requirement is that you be smart and, eventually, be able to speak on TV. That’s how Marc Thiessen became a star too. He couldn’t speak that well on TV. He had his little clipboard; he was very nerdy. But he was so smart, I knew eventually he could do it, and after a bunch of times he got to be great. You were one of the rare exceptions who was great right from the get-go.
BUCK: Thank you so much. By the way, it was Richard Fowler — Fox News contributor — Ellison Barber, Buck Sexton, Richard Fowler. First time I was ever on primetime TV on Megyn’s show.
MEGYN: (chuckling)
BUCK: But anyway, Clay has, like, important things to dive into here.
CLAY: I don’t know that they’re super important, but, Megyn, thanks for coming on. You’ve got a new show that’s gonna be on SiriusXM — so congratulations on that — in addition to the podcast.
MEGYN: Thank you.
CLAY: So I’m curious what you think, having been through a lot of the wildness that is television, news — sports is connected to news as well – -this sort of diversity and inclusion “woke-off,” that I’ve been calling it (chuckles) that ESPN had where Rachel Nichols for people who don’t know, long-time ESPN employee, replaced in her most prominent job by Maria Taylor.
She gets recorded. The camera is in her hotel room; she doesn’t know it’s on. She gets recorded saying that Maria Taylor is getting the job because she’s black, and then about an hour ago — because of diversity initiatives. About an hour ago in the ultimate irony here, Rachel Nichols, by the way, who has been lecturing all sports fans that, for instance, it’s the right move to pull the NBA All-Star Game out of Charlotte over transgender bathroom issues, even she’s not woke enough. She’s now lost her sideline reporting job for the NBA Finals that begins as well. What’s the lesson here to you from the Rachel Nichols mess?
But I’m not surprised to hear that this person who’s been holier-than-thou about, you know, all these issues that we’ve been covering with the wokeratti, first chance she gets behind the scenes, takes a shot at her black colleague and chalks it up to her skin color, the fact that she’s getting the other job. And if I were the black reporter, Maria Taylor, I’d be pissed, too.
CLAY: How…? I think it’s utterly fascinating. You now have moved from primarily television into audio. I’m curious. From the perspective of analyzing questions, stories, everything else, how would you assess the difference between a nightly television show or a morning television show — you have done both — compared to an audio-first format? I know there’s a video component to it as well. But how, in your experience, are they different?
And I would say audio is the answer. In audio, you can have the whole martini, you can move on to the steak, you can have the twice baked potato, you can even have the lemon cake when it’s all done. So you leave just feeling more sated. You’ve learned a lot more, you feel a lot more informed, and I just think the whole experience is better in a way. You know, it’s not quick and dirty.
BUCK: Hey, Megyn, Buck here. You know, given what we’re seeing with the Democrat aligned corporate media, places like CNN and the New York Times, it feels like they don’t really understand what their reason for being (chuckles) is right now. They’re having trouble. They’re having an existential crisis of sorts. I’m just wondering. As somebody who has been, obviously, a host of a primetime show with Fox but also then been outside into what we refer sometimes as the corporate-Democrat media side of things.
Where do you see this going for them? I mean, are we ever returning to a place where the New York Times is really going to say and CNN is really going to try to promote themselves as objective, nonpartisan news sources, or has the last four years and now the six months of Biden’s presidency broken that forever?
CLAY: (laughing)
MEGYN: Like everyone.
BUCK: (laughing)
MEGYN: Smerconish could stay. I’m trying to think who else could stay. I don’t know. I like Van Jones. I realize he’s on the left, but he’s a reasonable guy. I like him 37 I’d replaced Don Lemon with Van Jones tomorrow because I think it’s so much more interesting and better. But virtually everybody would have to be fired, because they’ve all been given permission to show their bias, and, boy, did they do it, did they lean into it.
Not one person when told by Jeff Zucker, you know, “Get more opinionated,” had an opinion that was in any way measured. They all revealed themselves to be far lefties. Not a scintilla of fairness. And so, you know, they lifted the dress up and they lifted it up too high and you can’t unsee that. So if it is any hope of attracting something more center or, you know, even right, they’re gonna have to get rid of everybody — and behind the scenes, too, not just on cam.
BUCK: Clay and I are trying every day to just… He’ll often describe the show as being authentic and fearless, and that’s our promise. In some ways part of our content mission here, is to say what we really think every day and to cherish the fact we’re actually allowed to do that. No one has ever yet — in my radio clear career and certainly onto on this show with Clay — told me a single thing that I’ve had to say.
What’s motivating you right now in this conversation? You already have a big podcast. You’ve created a large audience with a major platform there. Now you’re gonna be at SiriusXM doing a two-hour-a-day show. What do you want to bring to it? Like what’s the center of your fight day in and day out?
And I think that’s exactly right. But what’s provocative today shouldn’t be, right? Like, you want to have an honest discussion with Ivermectin and whether that’s a good treatment or preventative measure for covid? Why can’t you talk about that? Why does YouTube or Facebook tell you, “You can’t”? That’s the beauty of audio right now is that you still can have those discussions.
This is where I belong. I feel like I’m home here because my business and yours too is talking about these third rails, and nothing should be off-limits. I have a segment of my show called, “You can’t say that or think that or do that.” Oh, wait! This is America. Yes, I can. I can say it.
And if people like you and I don’t do it when given the forum — whether it’s my own podcasting business or now partnership with Sirius — who will? Right? Like people have to be reminded that that’s their American birthright, to have conversations like this, and it’s the only way we figure this nonsense out.
CLAY: What would you do, Megyn, if you had an opportunity to be taken seriously as it pertains to the powers of Amazon — you just mentioned Facebook, Twitter — making decisions not only about what can be discussed, but also what can be seen. We saw what happened with the New York Post. You couldn’t mention the idea that there might have been a lab leak in China.
And then Jon Stewart finally comes out and, you know, makes a joke about it and it’s like everybody on the left wing suddenly acknowledges that this was not a conspiracy theory at all. How do you solve the power of Big Tech? What would you try to do if someone came to you and said, “Hey, you’re on our panel to try to make American sort of democracy and debate function fully again?” ‘Cause I think you would acknowledge it’s not functioning right now.
MEGYN: Well, let me tell you something, Clay. I was actually invited out to meet with all the Google head honchos.
CLAY: Ooo! Big time. Yes.
“Otherwise you’re gonna keep doing what you’ve been doing and alienating half the country,” and they promptly blew me right off. (laughs) So I don’t think there’s any real desire. I think if anything, it’s going another way in the same way we discussed with, you know, like the New York Times. And I don’t see changing them as a meaningful solution. I think the only meaningful solution is creating new platforms.
BUCK: I also think Megyn I just add that when you’re talking to the kind of folks you’re bringing up —
MEGYN: Yes?
BUCK: — with that level of power but also the echo chambers that they exist in, they don’t even understand why you’d want to talk about Ivermectin or what actual clinical trials have gone on with hydroxychloroquine, because Dr. Fauci has already told us the answer.
I mean, that’s the mentality at the very highest level of the establishment. Why would you even want to have these conversations? I’ve come across this with many people across the media ecosystem? “What do you mean? We already have…? Why even discuss the answers?”
MEGYN: Yes.
BUCK: “We already have the answers. We’ve been told from on high.”
MEGYN: That there’s some sort of social responsibility to stop talking about issues that make them feel uncomfortable. And we’re seeing this not just in these companies but in school systems. I was telling the story the other day about my daughter, they were given a handout on the George Floyd-Derek Chauvin
verdict. She’s 10. Fourth grade.
BUCK. Oh, my God.
MEGYN: And the girls were asked to discuss it and one of the girls bravely said… Because the teacher says, “There’s a massive problem with cops killing black men in America.” One of the girls said, “Well, wasn’t this guy resisting arrest?”
MEGYN: Then the teacher said, “They always blame the victim. They always blame the victims.” Then my daughter said, “Well, wasn’t he on drugs?” and the teacher said, “This conversation is making me uncomfortable, and I am shutting it down right now.”
BUCK: Wow! Hostile environment from a 10-year-old!
CLAY: (laughing)
BUCK: Making the teacher feel unsafe by asking important questions of law and fact. Not allowed to do it, Clay.
MEGYN: Talk about, like, you know, chilling their ability to learn how to be critical thinkers. By the way, this information was in the article that the teacher handed out. But that’s just one example of how it’s happening at all levels — to the kids, the grown-ups, the media companies.
And I do think those of us who are not on board with that are just gonna have to work on nurturing executives who have got billions of dollars who can create new platforms that just behave a different way — like Parler, and we saw what happened there. But we need our own Amazon. You know, I mean, I am not some far-right person. I’m center right, right?
That’s sort of where I live. The fact that even somebody like I need to worry about my conversation is absurd. I’ve got plenty of center-lefties listening to me. We need our own Amazon, we need our own Google, we need our own Facebook, because all those companies are going in the wrong direction. I don’t see them returning to normalcy.
CLAY: You just talked about your 10-year-old daughter and the debate, conversation surrounding George Floyd and how quickly it got shut down. We played earlier the mayor of Chicago, Lori Lightfoot, saying that 99% of the people who criticize her are racist and sexist. What do you think about the labeling of everything as being racist or sexist if it raises — as that conversation your 10-year-old daughter just had — uncomfortable questions that don’t necessarily follow easy identity politics lines?
CLAY: Yes.
MEGYN: Over 1600 shot. She’s trying to distract from her horrendous policies and her horrendous management of her city. And this is what we see the leftist media do too. When you get on something that’s not nice about Joe Biden, suddenly they’ll hurl a name at you.
And I think people who are willing to take these risks and say things about people whether it’s Barack Obama or Joe Biden, you need to get ready for that assault and need to stand tall in the face of it, because those words just don’t have the meaning they used to.
BUCK: Megyn, thank you so much. Everybody should check out Megyn Kelly’s new show on Sirius. Megyn, when does it launch?
MEGYN: It launches in September right after Labor Day. It’s my podcast, but it’s done live on the radio on the Triumph channel on Sirius.
BUCK: The Megyn Kelly Show. Help the Megyn Kelly Show and the Clay and Buck Show beat NPR on the ratings. That’s our campaign.
MEGYN: (chuckling)
BUCK: Megyn, thank you so much. Great to have you with us.
MEGYN: All the best, guys. Good luck with everything.
CLAY: Thank you.
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