BUCK: We just finished an hour-long discussion with number 45, former President Donald J. Trump. So much in that. If you’re just joining us now, please go to the Clay and Buck podcasts, go to ClayAndBuck.com. We’ll have clips up there, posts of it. You need to hear, we talked about China, Taiwan, the economy, Biden, the midterms, will he run again, is he worried about the DOJ under Biden bringing a charge against him? It was an hour-long conversation, Clay. We covered a lot of territory. I mean, if you had to pick one, was there one thing for you that stuck out where you just said — and both of us certainly had the response of, this guy is still super sharp, still super energetic. And he’s in the game. We know that. It’s just a question of when he’s gonna announce, what he’s gonna announce, and how he wants to play it.

CLAY: He’s a hundred percent running, okay? I think anyone who argues otherwise is crazy. So, all of you out there, Trump is going to run in 2024. He hasn’t officially announced it. We’ve been telling you that our expectation is that’s gonna happen. I will say the things that maybe stood out to me the most, I think he’s genuinely troubled by the status that Joe Biden is in. You know, Buck, we talk about this — and I don’t think it gets discussed enough — you can be a Republican, you can be a Democrat, you can be an independent. A week, feeble American president is awful no matter what your political persuasions are.

And you don’t see the video obviously, there’s not a video in here, you don’t see the face-to-face reaction. But I think what stood out to me, Buck, was, he legitimately seems pained over Joe Biden’s deterioration and the fact that he’s the president of the United States just from the perspective of being an American, not even just on the, hey, I disagree with all of his policy choices, that he is so enfeebled, you could tell based on Trump’s just physical responses when it’s there, it pains him. And I think that doesn’t get talked about enough. There are a lot of people in that same boat, a lot of listeners right now who feel that way.

BUCK: Well, Trump is in his seventies. He’s seen plenty of contemporaries, plenty of people who are, you know, a few years ahead of him, as Joe Biden, reach that point where it’s time to spend more time with the family, it’s time to certainly not be the commander-in-chief. And I think that, you know, he said he doesn’t want to — he doesn’t want to be mean about it, and I think there’s this — and we said the same thing. Nobody wants to be pointing out that somebody… I mean, we should all be so lucky —

CLAY: We hope one day, yes.

BUCK: — to get to eighty and are still, you know, firing on all cylinders and healthy and everything else and we’re all very happy that President Biden is doing well, past covid and all that. But he’s not up for being president of the United States, and it’s obvious. That’s a different thing, right? Someone being healthy enough to walk around the garden and spend time with the grandkids, that’s great, that’s something we all celebrate and want for every American. Being the commander-in-chief in a time of real national peril, we need somebody who is ready for that job in a way that’s obviously not the case with Joe Biden.

On the economy as well as you could tell how former president Trump feels like the current White House has just made such a mess of things on the energy front. We went full energy independence in terms of domestic production under the Trump administration, which is a remarkable milestone. Remember back, what was it, in the seventies, eighties, I think, they’re talking about peak oil and there are people saying we’re gonna reach peak oil and then there was the shale revolution in this country.

Enormous wealth for the United States that came from shale technology, you know, using fracking technology to get at the oil shale. And so now we have a situation where it looks like the economy’s gonna be getting worse. And the other part of this that’s such a shock, Larry Kudlow — who was obviously in the Trump administration as a senior economic adviser. He was on Fox before, and this was kind of our reaction yesterday as well, Clay, on the day the recession is official, the Biden White House does things that not only are meant to block out the recognition of the recession but are also in opposition to what you would do based upon the indicators the economy’s giving you, of course with inflation, spend a whole bunch of money, spend a whole bunch of money on green energy. Can we play that Larry Kudlow clip where he just says, this doesn’t even make any sense?

KUDLOW: In the space of 48 hours, you have these two huge bills, okay? So, there is no deficit reduction, there’s a massive tax increase, which is gonna do great harm to businesses and working folks, and finally you have this huge volume of spending, which — I mean, I thought there was an agreement in Washington that too much spending causes higher inflation. Tax hikes are gonna cause a worse recession. If you guys can figure out the economic logic of this, please come on my show and explain it to me, ’cause I don’t get it. I’ve only been doing this for about 50 years; so, you’re gonna have to help me out on this.

BUCK: Kudlow is a savvy player on this stuff, Clay, and he’s just pointing out, it’s almost like they’re trying to make it worse.

CLAY: It’s infuriating. And we have managed, in this Biden experience, to both create the highest inflation in 40 years and simultaneously enter into a recession and a lot of the things that you have to do to fix both of them are sometimes contradictory, which we talked about on Wednesday when you make the decision to have to raise interest rates three-quarters of a basis point, that’s usually contrary to what you would do during a recession. And then you’re also, and this…

I’m so fired up ’cause this news broke Wednesday even that Joe Manchin was gonna be signing on for this hundreds of billions of dollars in additional spending. Buck, when you actually break this down, it’s not only that he made those choices, it’s that he’s actually said it and so has virtually every Democrat. I just want you to hear a few of these. Bill Clinton said what a recession is. This is cut 3, guys. In 2000, Bill Clinton explains a recession.

CLAY: Okay. So, that’s Bill Clinton saying what a recession is. And then you had Joe Manchin. So, that was Bill Clinton in 2000. You had Joe Manchin back in 2010 saying the exact opposite of the choice he just made. And before I get to Joe Manchin, let me also play Obama. Obama says, hey, you don’t raise taxes in a recession. It’s common knowledge. Listen to Obama back then.

FLASHBACK — Barack Obama in 2010:

“You don’t raise taxes in a recession.”

“The last thing you want to do is to raise taxes in the middle of a recession.”

Democrats in 2022 during the #BidenRecession: Let’s raise taxes! pic.twitter.com/K49IZW3WBx

— Steve Guest (@SteveGuest) July 28, 2022

CLAY: And then Joe Manchin, Buck, on top of it, all these people are doing the exact opposite of what conventional economic wisdom is. Here’s Manchin saying now you don’t raise taxes at all during a recession. This is Joe Manchin 2010.

MANCHIN: I don’t think during a time of recession, you mess with any of the taxes or increase any taxes. I can’t look the people of West Virginia in the eye and ask them to pay a penny more until I know we’re running this government efficiently.

BUCK: I just want to know what they —

CLAY: Infuriating, Buck.

BUCK: — what they promised Joe Manchin or how they managed to get — now, look. He is a Democrat, and there’s a reason for that. He does believe, clearly, in spending more and taxing more. But at this phase in the Biden presidency, this isn’t, you know, the first month where it’s all, “Oh, we’ll just do whatever and see where the chips fall.” They have seen what the policies have done. The American people are feeling the pain, the effects. By the way, one of the more interesting moments, I think, as well of many with our last hour with President Trump was when we’re talking to him about the picture of the economy.

They keep saying unemployment at 3.5%. But there are millions of people in the labor force that have not come back online since the pandemic started. And so, it’s not really a clear picture. And I can just say this. I have come across so many businesses and individuals working for them, running them, who say, we just can’t get workers. So, what is going on here? There’s clearly something unhealthy in the economy beyond just the high prices, inflation. And to think that raising taxes on corporations, raising taxes — they keep saying, anybody less than $400,000, they’re gonna raise taxes on individuals, too, they’re gonna unleash the IRS on people. This is what they’re doing when we’re going into a recession?

CLAY: It is… Remember, Buck, when we talked about the report that Joe Manchin wasn’t going to participate in any of Joe Biden’s economic agenda. That news came out, what, three weeks ago, something like that? And then it occurs that they have been negotiating quietly behind the scenes. And this was what I was kind of afraid of. We had this conversation early on. I said, if Democrats look and know that they’re a hundred percent gonna lose the House — and I think at this point it would be stunning if they don’t lose the House. We don’t know about the Senate, unfortunately.

BUCK: We need to start looking at real estate in Costa Rica or Palau or something.

CLAY: That’s correct. Because things will really go even worse. So, they know this may be their last opportunity to control Congress and have the White House maybe for a decade or more. And so, what do you do then? You go for broke. And, to me, what Manchin’s statement effectively let it be known is, I don’t think there’s any way he can run now. I think he’s basically retiring because I know we got a lot of people listening to us in West Virginia. He only won by three points the midterm election of 2018. Trump won West Virginia by nearly 40 points, I think. I don’t see any way possible that he gets reelected in 2024.

BUCK: You think there are all of the goodies in this package that affect West Virginia, though? I mean, that’s the way — that’s how he would probably justify it, right? He might be one of these senators who is a pork barrel player, you know, maybe a guy that’s getting it for his constituents at the expense of, honestly, the rest of the country, which may very well be the calculation that he made here. It’s remarkable that this guy’s been able to hang on as long as he has.

CLAY: He has been a survivor, there’s no doubt, in terms of his political career. I think his political career is over. I really do, Buck. And I don’t see any way that he is going to be able to get reelected. And to his credit, a lot of his decisions had been accurate so far in the Biden administration. I think this is a tremendous miscalculation by him. I think he saw the blowback that came out. And it’s not only that he did it, it’s the way… Look, I think —

BUCK: Why’d he do it? Why’d he do it? Let me ask you. Why do you think?

CLAY: I think he’s riding off into the sunset. I think in the back of his mind he may be thinking I could be a vice president in 2024. This gives me viability for a larger office. But I think he’s probably looking at polling and saying, there’s no way I can win as a Democrat. This is my sayonara, and he’s… How old is he, 75, 76 himself? I think he’s ready for retirement and he’s gonna consider this as a big win. And it gives him viability if there is potentially something out there, and maybe he wants to run for president in 2024. I don’t know.

BUCK: No way.

CLAY: I don’t know.

BUCK: No way.

CLAY: He’s not gonna run for the Senate and win. So, I don’t know what he thinks in his mind. You know, lots of politicians… Let’s be honest. Buck, you and I get to interact with a lot of politicians, right?

BUCK: Yeah. He hasn’t come on this show. We wanted to get him on the show. He won’t come on.

CLAY: I would love to have him on ’cause I’d like to hear his explanation, his rationale, ’cause I think he’s somewhat reasonable. But I think he blew it here.

BUCK: If we could — other than Fauci — and you know that you would have to hit the bleep button with me being if he came on the show. Other than Fauci, if you could get anybody from anywhere in the political spectrum to come on, who would it be?

CLAY: It would be Joe Biden because I think if he’s talked with us for an hour his presidency would be over. Like, you just heard Trump in this room with us for an hour. You can agree or disagree with many different things that Trump has done in his political career. Joe Biden, Buck, kind of painting the picture here, we’re sitting in a long conference room table. Joe Biden’s sitting at this table with us just like Trump did for an hour. If he were here right now, let’s say we had him for the third hour of the program, we had Trump hour 1, we had Joe Biden hour 3, I think by the time of that hour ended, Democrats would be saying, we have to put the 25th Amendment in place. Joe Biden can’t —

BUCK: Hey, equal time, we should put out the ad, PSA, President Biden wants to come on the show anytime, he’s more than welcome, we’ll have a long chat with him. I would be fascinated — I think you, me, and Pelosi for an hour would be just from a radio perspective, amazing, amazing listening.

CLAY: And we don’t run from these opportunities… Look, we offered Fauci, come on for an hour.

BUCK: Fauci as Fauci. Like, we’ll make it fun for him. But I don’t… I just don’t think that he’ll… I don’t think —

CLAY: They’re afraid. They’re afraid to come on. And so, my answer would be Biden, because I really think he’s not physically or mentally capable now —

BUCK: In my head when I asked you that question, I was discounting Biden, one, ’cause obviously… But I did say if we could say get anybody. But also, he just can’t do it.

CLAY: Would not be physically capable.

BUCK: So, actually, as a radio exercise, it would be interesting because you would just see the lack of energy, the deterioration happening, ’cause this takes a lot… You and I do a lot of TV, writing, other things. Radio you can’t hide, man. If you’re not with it, if you’re not sharp, there’s no cut to the quick break and have some other guests come on and do all your work for you.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

CLAY: I can’t think of hardly anything we could have asked him that we didn’t.

BUCK: Once the Trump train gets going, there are a lot of stops on the way, a lot of topics that you hit.

CLAY: No doubt.

BUCK: So, you know, he’s a force of nature.

CLAY: And the number of course 1-800-282-2882. You can load those up, we’ll take some calls here in the second and the third hour of the program. Also wanted to mention, Don Jr. came by. Trump’s entire family, basically, is out here at the LIV golf event, including a bunch of his grandkids. And obviously during commercial breaks you guys don’t know exactly what’s going on, but Trump’s grandkids came in, and it’s interesting to see a president of the United States off the mike, not under, you know, a television camera, interacting with his kids and his grandkids.

It’s just… It was a cool scene as that was all going on and kind of painting the picture for you outside of this former residence where we are basically broadcasting inside of the Bedminster golf course. Massive crowds of people, as we said, outside this house as they realized that the president was being interviewed. And as he is moving around in this course, you can kind of see people reacting, chasing after him. But he’s got the whole family out here. And it is going to be, I think, now, quite the scene as they have a shotgun start about 12 minutes ago, they got underway here. Again, open up the phone lines. 800-282-2882. We’ll continue to roll you into the Friday edition of the program and into your weekend.

Awesome ⁦@clayandbuck⁩ interview with President Trump for the first hour of our show. As ⁦we finished, the Bedminster crowd had built up outside the house. Great scene: pic.twitter.com/fH6MgzsiWf

— Clay Travis (@ClayTravis) July 29, 2022

BUCK: We gotta see if you and the president. I want to see who can hit it from the tees further. Clay, you know, he’s a surprising height. If you never stood next to him, he’s like 6-2. He’s a pretty big guy. He’s got some height.

CLAY: I have a 30-year advantage on him. So, if I can’t outdrive — someone 30 years younger —

BUCK: He’s got all that experience.

CLAY: He’s a way better golfer.

BUCK: All that experience.

CLAY: He’s a way better golfer. I would like to think that I could outdrive him if I just grip and rip. Here’s the challenge. There’s no telling where in the world my tee shot might end up, Buck, so, I think he’s pretty consistent metronomic-like, based on what I heard from the pros.

BUCK: Metronomic. Look at you.

CLAY: Yeah. Putting it right out in the center of the fairway every time.