BUCK: Alex Berenson with us now, author of Pandemia, and also has a great Substack that I subscribe to, Clay subscribes to. We recommend you check it out. Mr. Berenson, good to talk to you again, sir.

BERENSON: Are you guys together today? Because lately it’s been one or the other.

BUCK: Well, you know, we usually —

CLAY: It’s summer vacation season. You gotta know how this thing works.

BUCK: Yeah, exactly, we got time away. Clay’s got a family.

BERENSON: No, I have nobody else to write the Substack for me. No, I don’t take any vacations.

BUCK: That’s true. So, here’s the deal, Alex. I need you to explain to me how they’re still saying… I mean, I read this story. This was amazing to me. It was ABC News just a couple weeks ago, and it was saying: Okay, a growing portion of covid-19 deaths are occurring among the vaccinated, and that, as of February 2022, more than 40% of those who died from covid were fully vaccinated. But I thought this was fascinating, the line that, quote, “these data should not be interpreted as vaccines not working,” end quote, from an “expert.”

CLAY: (laughing)

BUCK: Can you explain that to me?

BERENSON: Yeah. I mean, they’re lying like they’ve been lying now for a year about the vaccines. Look, it’s much worse than 40%, okay? There’s no way it’s not much worse than 40% because in countries that have more accurate data and less pressure — there’s pressure everywhere. It’s worse than the United States, you know, because of the relationship between (crosstalk).

BUCK: Take, for example… Alex Berenson, do we know, can you give us a comparison?

BERENSON: Yes! Yes! It’s like 80 to 90%. You know, the U.K. stopped giving out the data itself, actually, in, I believe, April. But the last reports were in the 90% range, okay? So the vaccines have zero efficacy for infection or transmission against Omicron. Nobody disputes that. Okay? In fact, they probably have negative efficacy. So the question then becomes if there’s some magic way in which they have positive efficacy against severe outcomes even though they do nothing to stop infection or transmission and possibly even hurt it, and yet there’s a theoretical to be made that that’s possible.

But the data don’t really support it, and we’ve been playing so many games with our data for so long that it’s basically untrustworthy. Look, the truth about the vaccines is this. There was this magic period last year when they stopped infection and transmission. They gave people a lot of antibodies. It lasted, you know, about four months, four to six months after the second dose. Ever since then, the data has gotten worse and worse and worse. And, by the way, before you got that second dose, after your first dose, you were actually at higher risk for infection.

So, the vaccines have been a bad bet almost from the beginning. And since… You know, since last summer or early fall they’ve been a terrible bet, and the boosters never were better and haven’t really worked. And that’s why this is going on and on and on. And here’s what’s interesting. Okay, there’s two very interesting things that happened. You know, I wrote a Stack this week that actually that actually got a lot of attention, got a lot of email from. If you go to a doctor’s office now, more and more doctors have just dropped any discussion of covid and of the vaccines.

And they will never admit — except, you know, to their friends, other doctors — not to average patients, why they’ve done this. But they’ve seen too many cases of side effects, and they’ve seen too many cases of people who’ve been vaccinated or boosted and are coming down with covid. So, they know the vaccines don’t work anymore. They’re under tremendous pressure from the health authorities, from the medical — state medical — boards and the AMA not to talk about it, not to tell the truth; so they just dropped it.

And I got so many emails both from patients and from physicians about this. So people know. Everybody knows the vaccines don’t really work at this point and we all just decided to stop talking about it. The second Substack, this is one I put out this morning, is that all-cause mortality is up again in Europe. Okay. So the data in Europe is better than the data in the United States. One thing about, you know, big bureaucratic countries is they collect data pretty well and they put it out, and even a country like Germany, Netherlands.

They put it out in English, you can see what it is, and it’s very up to date. So last fall, about three or four months after the first round of the mRNAs, these countries had big spikes in all-cause mortality — these deaths from heart attack, cancer, covid, everything else. That’s the best way to measure what’s going on with the health of a society. And if you look, we can predict very accurately how many people are gonna die in a given week or month. Like, we’re good at that, and it’s very — it’s very reasonable, and it just…

I mean, it’s like very predictable and it just changes with the weather, basically. So. So these countries saw a big spike in increases. Now, there were a lot of theories about that. One theory was, “Well, you know, people had delayed health care, wrong covid.” It was also, you know, plausible that there was some delayed impact from the vaccines, especially on heart disease. Okay. So what happened in the spring, in the winter and the spring? Well, that blip went away, okay.

Deaths went back to normal, and even a little bit below normal in some of these countries — and guess what happened? They boosted again, okay? Or they boosted for the first time. They gave a lot of people. More people in Europe than in the U.S. got boosted. Like, the boosters were not really optional in Europe in the way they were in the U.S. And so right now those European countries are again seeing a spike in all-cause mortality. Okay? You can’t say that this is because there’s been delayed health care, because if that were the answer, why would it have gone down in the spring?

So to me, this is a… By the way, the people — the age-group — that is seeing the biggest jump in all-cause mortality is the elderly, and those were the people who were most likely to be boosted. So that is, like, as bad as, you know, people’s view of the vaccines has sort of quietly become despite the endless propaganda that they hear, to me it actually has not caught up to the reality right now… (noise) I’m sorry. I’m… I’m a train platform.

CLAY: All right.

BUCK: We know, Alex.

CLAY: So, Alex —

BERENSON: Yes.

CLAY: — with all of this in mind, how insane is it that people would be giving covid shots at this point to their kids younger than 5?

BERENSON: Oh, it’s just not gonna happen! I mean, the data, like, they can approve this in mid-June. And, you know, I think uptake will be less than 10%, okay, ’cause if you look at sort of older teens, it’s in the 50% range. Kids 5 to 11, it’s in the 25% range, and most of that was last year when pediatricians were still boosting.

CLAY: Because they’re trying to scream that there’s this huge demand for kids under 5. You’re saying you think only like 10% of parents are gonna do it?

BERENSON: Oh, yeah. I mean, if you look at… If you look at… I mean, essentially, essentially, they’re basically close to no vaccines mRNA covid vaccines being given in the United States these days. There’s about 30,000 people who get it for the first time. I don’t know who those 30,000 people are, how they’re being forced into it. There’s about 30 or 40,000 people who get a second dose to complete the primary series. There’s about a hundred thousand people still getting a third booster — I mean, a second — you know, a third shot, a first booster, and then there’s a couple hundred thousand getting a fourth booster.

But if you look at the number of people who have gotten the second booster, the fourth shot — and now we’re two months into that — it’s only about 15 million people, and there’s 330 million people in the country. The vaccines are dead, and the only thing that’s gonna happen to them is they’re gonna get tossed, right? They’re gonna be allowed to freeze in storage for a few months and then they’re gonna get tossed and this idea that a lot of parents are gonna get their kids vaccinated is nonsense, especially because pediatricians are not pushing for this.

BUCK: Just one more quick one for you, Alex. And we’re speaking to Alex Berenson. Get his book Pandemia. Subscribe to his Substack. Dr. Birx is still out there making the rounds. Fauci’s been a little MIA recently. Walensky is in, like, the Witness Protection Program. You know, she’s dyed her hair blond and is living, you know, somewhere in northern Montana. But, anyway, I just want to know, Dr. Birx is still saying that masks work. She’s still going around saying, “We know that masks work,” and I just… Is she a sociopath? s she just in denial? What do you think is going on? ‘Cause she was supposed to be more reasonable than Fauci.

BERENSON: Well, that’s actually… That’s actually not true. If you read what Scott Atlas said, you know, in his book, Atlas found that Birx was actually the worst. Quietly —

BUCK: Really!

BERENSON: Yeah. She quietly was just absolutely impossible to deal with. So, Fauci’s, like… Fauci’s… Look, I don’t know what goes on in his mind, but he’s pretty smart, and the rest of them do not seem to be very smart. Redfield certainly wasn’t very smart, and Birx… You know, Birx was, like, doing her little road trips in the summer of 2020 trying to keep schools closed and kids masked. And, you know, if she had an ounce of grace, she should be apologizing and then disappear from the scene forever. But of course, nobody ever does that. (crosstalk)

CLAY: Did you, by the way, take some solace in suddenly the New York Times coming out and saying mask mandates don’t work after over two years of berating everyone with mask mandates working?

BERENSON: No, because they claim that masks do work!

CLAY: Well —

BERENSON: They’re still not telling the truth about vaccines!

CLAY: I know.

BERENSON: I’m sick of it!

BUCK: (laughs)

BERENSON: Just sick of it.

BUCK: I’m with Alex, man. Until they bend the knee and beg forgiveness —

CLAY: They’re never going to do it, but the fact that they wrote mask mandates don’t work and then they tried to still argue masks work, but the way people wear them don’t work, right?

BERENSON: (laughs) Right! Right!

CLAY: I mean, they’re trying to thread a thin needle here right now to try to make this happen. But it’s amazing how all the things that you said, I said, Buck said that we got killed for for months — now everybody suddenly is trying to tiptoe up to them being true.

BUCK: I used to have you and Alex on my show because you were the only people that would agree with me that didn’t think I was crazy. Jesse Kelly, too, a few other people, but not very many.

BERENSON: But, you know, it’s gonna be very interesting with the vaccines. You know, come the winter, right, will they really push for a booster? I mean, the data is just so ugly, I just don’t know how they do that at this point. You know, and I do — I do think what we’re sort of seeing is people are just moving on, right? And unfortunately, from my point of view — and it sounds like from your point of view too — that’s not good enough, right?

BUCK: Nope.

BERENSON: We need a reckoning here, but how we get that when the people who, like, should be apologizing are continuing to lie and the rest of the country just wants to forget about it, I don’t know.

CLAY: It’s a great question. Alex Berenson, follow his Substack, make sure you don’t miss him, and hopefully one day he will be returned to social media in a blaze of glory.