CLAY: The only person who actually died on January 6th as a result of the incident itself inside of the Capitol was Ashli Babbitt, former soldier who was shot by a Capitol police officer. We still don’t know who the Capitol police officer is, but now her family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit, and there may well be substantially interesting discovery. Remember, we’re talking about an entire investigation that is going on into January 6th and almost no discussion surrounding Ashli Babbitt.

Compare that, for instance, to Charlottesville where one woman was killed in the Charlottesville protests years ago. That’s when Joe Biden claimed that he made the decision to run for president himself with what was going on in Charlottesville. But Ashli Babbitt, we still don’t know her full story. So, Buck, her family has filed over a $10 million lawsuit to try to get to the essence of what happened on that day.

BUCK: Yeah, Ashli Babbitt was an Air Force veteran. As we know, she was shot in the neck, and you can see it on video. So, it’s one of these police use-of-force incidents, Capitol Hill Police in this case, where it’s quite apparent exactly what happened. And it does not show the officer giving any warning. It does not show the officer saying, “Halt or I’ll shoot” or anything like that.

He draws his weapon, shoots an unarmed woman in the neck through a door. She hadn’t even fully breached the door yet. He shot her through the door. We don’t know the officer’s name and also we don’t even know the use-of-force justification in this circumstance. ‘Cause we talked about, Clay, all the different riots across the country –and I’m actually doing a special tonight on The First TV called The Other Insurrection about all the stuff that happened in 2020, all the political violence and the threat of even more of it if Biden didn’t win.

I don’t think we have nearly enough attention paid to that, and if we’re really gonna have a conversation about stopping violence, you’d have to include that and start with that, quite honestly. But with Ashli Babbitt with this lawsuit, Clay, they’re gonna have to tell us what happened. The discovery side of this is gonna mean that they’re gonna have to. There’s not a national security secrecy component here that I’m aware of, at least. It’s not like this is the CIA where they can say, “Classified.”

CLAY: Yes. So for people out there sort of a layman’s analysis here, Ashli Babbitt was shot and killed by the Capitol Police. Her family has filed a civil lawsuit seeking millions of dollars in damages. And just a quick analysis here: Civil lawsuit is different than a criminal lawsuit. Criminal lawsuit, usually what you are facing is time in jail. It’s brought by the state or the federal government.

You are the defendant; they are the prosecutor. In a civil lawsuit, you are the plaintiff. That is, you or your family are filing the lawsuit, and they are filing the lawsuit on her behalf, seeking compensation for what they are arguing is an unjust death that she suffered at the hands of the Capitol Police. And so the way that this will play out is, I would imagine… I don’t even know her family at all, but a huge part of the reason to file this lawsuit is probably not monetary at all. It’s to actually get answers to questions about how she came to die that day.

BUCK: Right. Force the disclosure component.

CLAY: That’s right, and so in a court setting, you would get all the information certainly of the shooter. You would get something simple like the shooter’s name. Meaning the Capitol Police officer who, again, I’m not saying he did anything illegal. Certainly, they made the decision that he did not. But the standard of behavior for illegality in a criminal setting is different when it comes to civil liability.

It’s 50% plus a scintilla, as opposed to beyond a reasonable doubt. So, what sort of information did he receive from his commanding officers? What sort of threat did he perceive? What was the situation on the ground at the time that he fired that gun? All of these things would be examined as a part of the lawsuit.

BUCK: Right, and to your point, you’re not saying that he, the officer, necessarily did anything that violated rules of engagement, broke the law, did anything criminal. We have to be consistent here. We do say that law enforcement officers have escalation and use-of-force tactics, techniques, and procedures — and if they stay within them, they are on the right side of the law.

It certainly looks to me, although the adjudication has already technically been made of this. The courts in D.C. or the prosecutor’s office I should say are not — have decided not to bring any kind of charges or even disciplinary measures. But even still, we do have a right to know, “Okay. What was the specific authorization for use of force in this case?” because if they’re going to tell us the reason there were no charges… The public should know this, Clay, right?

CLAY: Yes, I agree. We should know the man’s name.

BUCK: — the reason there were no charges against the officer, or any discipline of any kind is that he was in fear of his life, let’s just say, ’cause that’s generally the law enforcement officer’s applicable here. You either fear serious bodily harm or death for you or someone else. But then we can look at this and say, “Really? He was in fear of his life from the unarmed woman? No one else was killed. He was in fear of his life?” Then we can have a public conversation about how interesting that that’s a fear-for-life situation but Antifa head to toe in black gear with paramilitary batons and shields isn’t.

CLAY: And no door between you and someone else, right? I think that’s significant. There is a barrier of some form or fashion. Yes, you’re right. All of these officers who, if we had seen…? I think it’s a great point by you. If we had seen, let’s say, a D.C. police officer pull out a gun and shoot somebody throwing things at him — which happened all the time in D.C. during all these protests — there would have been an immediate demand that charges be brought.

BUCK: They would have demanded murder charges right away.

CLAY: Absolutely right.

BUCK: Yeah.

CLAY: And we would have known the name of the officer who fired the gun within probably an hour. It would have all been public. So sometimes — and again I would say with this Ashli Babbitt-related situation, sometimes the best way to get information, sadly, is to have to file a lawsuit to put people on the record in a court of law in order to get information you deserve.

BUCK: We will continue to follow this closely, because, obviously, most of the media doesn’t want to spend time on this, and we have not forgotten what happened in any respect that day.