CLAY: Buck, you’ve done his show; I never have. But Bill Maher on HBO has become increasingly, dare we say, rational and sane in an insane world, and he had a couple of interesting takes I thought on abortion, in particular — and this is an interesting discussion that I think very few people actually are aware of. The United States had a far more lenient abortion policy under Roe v. Wade than virtually any European country did. And many people don’t know that. Let’s listen positive Bill Maher discuss disgust it on his HBO show last night.

MAHER: I learned this this week, because this put it on the front page. There are pretty basic things that I did not know about abortion. Like in Europe, the modern countries of Europe, are way more restrictive than we are, or what they’re even proposing. If you are pro-choice, you would like it a lot less in Germany and Italy and France and Spain and Switzerland. Did you know that? I didn’t know that. I learned most people who are pro-life are women. Did not know that.

BUCK: Indeed, it’s becoming very clear, Clay, that a lot of people who think of themselves as pro-choice don’t realize that the abortion lobby in America, even on a global scale, is extreme. Their position is extreme. I think a lot of people who say, “Oh, I’m pro-choice,” don’t realize what they’re really signing on for in terms of what the movement of pro-choice, pro-abortion is in this country.

CLAY: It’s very much branding. Because I feel like there are a lot of people — and we talked about this last week — when you actually dive in, you say, “Okay, what do you think about nine-month abortion? People say, God, no. There’s no way remotely that I would appreciate that.” And I said, “But, you know, you’re pro-choice. Eight months, seven months?” And I think this is pretty significant when you dive in, ’cause there’s a lot of talk about, hey, a lot of people want to say that they support Roe v. Wade.

I think that’s because people don’t want to get into the nitty-gritty details, Buck, of having to decide when is an abortion permissible and when is it impermissible because it made feels, for many people, like an icky conversation. It’s an important one, but I think it’s one that our nation has been avoiding, by and large, because of Roe v. Wade.

And I also want to play this one from Bill Maher — and this, for any lawyer out there, also is going to ring true. There’s a difference between precedent that’s upheld and precedent that isn’t upheld. Some really awful cases exist for a long time like Plessy v. Ferguson in 1896 that upheld separate but equal. That was for a long time the law of the land. Listen to cut 4.

MAHER: This whole bulls(bleep) argument about, “Well, it’s settled law.” So was segregation. Precis v. Ferguson was settled law in 1896 and thank God somebody said, “Let’s unsettle it.” So that’s a bulls(bleep) argument. It’s what —

CROWD: (applause)

MAHER: It’s what you think. If you — if you like babies, then you’re pro-life, and if you like women you’re pro-choice. I like women.

CLAY: I don’t think that connection there at the end is accurate. But I do what we’re already advantageous towards is a real conversation and debate about what should America’s abortion policy be in all 50 states, and that is one where you’re going to be able to hold your elected officials accountable and the people will decide, which is the essence of democracy.

BUCK: Overemphasis on precedent is a crap argument. Saying, “The Supreme Court justices misled the court when they said it’s currently settled law and therefore they lied,” is a crap argument. There are arguments we could take seriously here, Clay. Those are just garbage arguments.

CLAY: No doubt. Absolutely, completely true.