BUCK: Now, there are two voices on the issue of race in America that I want you to become more familiar with, and we’ll have… We should invite them on the show, actually. John McWhorter, who is a professor at Columbia University, and Glenn Loury, who’s also professor, I believe, at Brown University. I could be wrong on that. But they’re also writers, public intellectuals. I just wanted you to hear — and then, Clay, I wanted you to react to it — this back-and-forth about how they essentially are debunking this argument of America is so racist. These are two African-American intellectuals. Really fascinating individuals. Play.

If “structural racism” is so bad in America, why do nonwhites from all over the planet risk so much to come here? Conversely, if nonwhite immigrants succeed so admirably here, what’s keeping native-born blacks from doing the same? @JohnHMcWhorter and I discuss at The Glenn Show. pic.twitter.com/AEf8GkN3zF

— Glenn Loury (@GlennLoury) December 15, 2021

LOURY: It’s said to be a microaggression to observe that this is the place that people want to actually come. America is supposed to be so racist. How come so many people from nonwhite ports of origin are risking everything to get here? America’s supposed to have no opportunity, according to the Ta-Nehisi Coateses of the world; the American dream is a fraud. Then how come so many people are saying their lives made so much better and the lives of their children made so much better by being able to participate in this society?

And, again, the arrow points backwards. How come black people are not themselves seizing these opportunities? Very difficult question. Lot that could be said about it. But white supremacy? That’s a childish, foolish, intellectually infantile — but politically convenient — response to the question, “Why are black people not availing ourselves of the same opportunities that people from every quarter of this world who are not European seem to be able to make the best of?

BUCK: This is an interesting bite. You can connect the argument to Nigerian immigrants to America outperform on a per capita basis — outperform — native-born white Americans, economically, by household. So if we have a white-supremacist society, which is what we’re told all the time, how is it that nonwhite immigrants from all over the world…? And we welcome and love them in our American family, of course. How is it that they do so well and we’re happy that they do?

CLAY: The fact that no one who argues that America is systemically racist can defend is this one that I’m about to share with all of you. Asian men are the highest earning group. Regardless of how long they’ve been in the country, Asian men are the highest earning ethnic group in the entire country. If white supremacy was the underlying foundation of everything in America, how is it that Asian men — many of whom have not been in this country for very long — are dunking all over white, black, and Hispanic men and women? How is that possible in a fundamentally systemically racist country? The defense they’ll sometimes give now — which be an utterly ridiculous one — is Asian people don’t count as a minority. That’s the defense that they try to make.

BUCK: I’ve learned this term recently because they just made it up. That’s the thing. Always remember this: They make up new terms to fit whatever the political need may be. The left is constantly doing this. They try to make you use certain terms like “undocumented,” which is made up, but they also will make up entirely new concepts. “White adjacent” is how the left will refer to Asian-Americans, to which you say, “Huh?”

CLAY: (laughing) “White adjacent,” yeah.

BUCK: But, you know, this is also reflected in the overt racism of elite institutions against Asian-Americans, places like Harvard University. When they tell you that they aren’t discriminating against Asians in favor of other minority groups, they are lying, and that’s why the Supreme Court is looking at this issue. They are lying!

CLAY: I hope the Supreme Court takes it up. And, Buck, this is also an interesting fact historically. Do you know why the SAT came to exist? Because Jewish people were being discriminated against.

BUCK: It was to create meritocracy in academia.

CLAY: That’s right.

BUCK: Yep. That’s right.

CLAY: So the Jewish people, instead of just white Anglo-Sexton Protestants from the right families —

BUCK: Did just say “Anglo-Sexton”? (laughing)

CLAY: Yeah. That’s old school, right? WASPs.

BUCK: Anglo-Saxon, not Sexton. Sexton’s me.

CLAY: Oh. Anglo… Sorry. Yes. But they tried… They tried to create a system that favored, artificially, people from a certain background. Now we’re tearing down the SAT because the meritocracy is not fair because Asians dominate test scores and grades too much. It’s a crazy world.

BUCK: Yeah. Life is not fair. You just want a law, a legal system that’s as fair as it can be and then let the chips fall where they may, but —

CLAY: (laughing) “Anglo-Sexton” is really funny, by the way. That should be your fantasy football name.

BUCK: (laughing) I don’t even know how to play fantasy football.

CLAY: Now you gotta have a team. That’s a great team name. You gotta do it.

BUCK: Oh, man.