CLAY: Not a surprise, but Jen Psaki came out and said that she believes the Mississippi abortion ban — according to Joe Biden — poses a grave risk to women’s fundamental rights. I wanted to ask the governor about this, but we’ll play it here. Go to cut 15.

PSAKI: I would note that the president believes, since you gave me the opportunity, that the Mississippi law blatantly violates women’s Constitutional rights to safe and legal abortions. This case presents a grave threat to women’s fundamental rights, to all of our rights as protected under Roe v. Wade for nearly half a century.

Every American deserves access to health care including reproductive health care, and the president is deeply committed to the constitutional right. As we’ve outlined before and as mentioned before he’s committed to working with Congress to codify the constitutional right to safe and legal abortion as protected by Roe.

BUCK: That would never happen, by the way. Beyond that, a lot of propaganda by Jen Psaki. It’s abortion. This whole thing about it’s health care, it’s liberty, it’s all these things. It’s abortion. And the Biden administration is going to go to the hill to back it because there’s a lot of donor dollars involved as well as the Democrat base completely fired up.

And really you see a lot of people for whom this issue brings out — we talk about a lot about people being crazy, you know, the insanity of double masking. I actually do think some of that is an anxiety disorder, a legitimate anxiety disorder. But when you have people, Clay, as there were yesterday or the day before, taking abortion pills.

I think it was symbolic but taking abortion pills and singing about the abortion on the Supreme Court and celebrating it, there’s something really wrong with people. There’s something really dark in the heart of America today, and it’s going to get very ugly as this gets closer to an actual resolution. She keeps talking about it as a constitutional right. It won’t be if the court says it’s not because this is fabricated out of whole cloth.

CLAY: I think there’s a big difference. I think you hit on it there, Buck, with the way that people were protesting outside the Supreme Court. By the way, abortion is probably always going to be legal in Washington, D.C., because they have the right to determine, I believe, whether or not abortion occurs there. If I’m wrong that’s a federalism issue, apologies.

But basically state governments are able to make their own choices going forward even if Roe v. Wade was overturned. But I think your point in a larger context there, Buck, is an important one. There’s a difference between someone having an abortion and someone bragging about having an abortion. There’s a monster difference to me between that. There are lots of people out there who are 14, 15, 16 years old.

And when they were young teenagers they might have had an abortion. Most of those people are not bragging about having abortion. That is a mental challenge and they bear it with them for the rest of their life. But this idea that you should be bragging about abortion? That’s the next step. And you should be proud to be having an abortion? There are these activists that are trying to argue that.

BUCK: Celebrate it openly! It’s open celebration.

CLAY: That’s such a tiny a scintilla of the population that agrees with that; 90% of people are, like, you may have different varieties of abortion. And pollsters have shown, depending on the way the questions are asked, we had a good question yesterday about partial-birth abortion. This is a complex issue for so many people. But the idea that you would brag about it or be proud or, as you said, celebrate the idea of having an abortion, is something that the overwhelming majority of Americans reject wholeheartedly.

BUCK: It’s also part of —

CLAY: And that’s where we are.

BUCK: There’s a propaganda as well around things like, “I’m calling it health care.” They act as though if you have a problem with this, it’s like having a problem with someone getting antibiotics for strep throat. This is not just a health care issue. There’s something else at issue here, and that’s what comes up in the Supreme Court.

It will come up in the Supreme Court review of this, obviously. The thing that they keep dancing around is there are two lives involved here. The fundamental issue here is that there are two lives involved when you’re talking about an abortion. So just to focus on the life of the mother is to fall into a moral fallacy on that one.

CLAY: A hundred percent, Buck. Well said there, too. We specifically know that because we have crimes that are allowed, if, for instance, unfortunately a mother is killed and she has a viable fetus, the fetus has a life and there can be a double murder charge that is brought.

BUCK: That’s right.

CLAY: That’s significant in terms of recognizing the humanity of the unborn child. People out there may not have paid a lot of attention to the criminal code as it pertains to that, but we specifically recognize that two lives are being taken when a pregnant mother with a viable fetus loses her life and the fetus does as well.