PENCE: These vaccine mandates are driving people out of the workforce. And, as you see with this impending mandate in New York, it actually is also a threat to public safety. No one should fear losing their job over decision of whether or not they take a covid vaccine.

We worked in Operation Warp Speed in record time to give the American people the testing, the tools, the medicines, and the vaccines to make the best decisions for themselves, their families, their businesses. These mandates are wrong, and they are driving labor shortages that are driving supply chain issues and they need to stop and they need to stop now.

BUCK: Welcome back Clay and Buck show. That was former Vice President Mike Pence laying it down with the vaccine mandates. Now, we’ve been discussing debating this as a nation and certainly here on this show for weeks. But keep in mind that some of the more major deadlines are just days away now. So what was theoretical is about to become very real in places like New York City.

We have a huge New York audience. We’re very blessed and thankful that you tune in to us day in and day out. I’m here in New York. I formerly worked for the NYPD, so I know the NYPD pretty well, and they are now facing what is being described “preparing for potential crush of retirements ahead of vaccine mandate.” Here’s the latest on this.

“The head of the Detective Endowment’s Association told the [New York] Post he expects a rise in retirements with 9,000 to 10,000 NYPD members — detectives and patrolmen — eligible to retire or ‘vest out,’ meaning they opted for a delayed and lesser retirement package.” If this happens, you are going to see… I mean, right away the fastest thing when you’re talking about a civil and municipal workforce, the fastest ways to see your city start to get really messy are not enough cops, not enough sanitation.

Firefighters right up there, too, obviously. But that’s usually when you see a big fire and, all of a sudden, they can’t deal with it. But cops and sanitation, those are things that you cut back on and people feel it. They know it’s very real. Clay, here’s the situation that we’re seeing play out across the country. We are in the midst of a pandemic, and because people will not get a vaccine — and remember here are the problems with the mandate as I see it.

Without even discussing the freedom and authoritarianism aspects of it, they do not make exceptions for natural immunity. They are not really giving people religious and other exemptions in major cities that are controlled by Democrats. So, they don’t care about natural immunity. They know the shot is temporary at best — and even in its peak window of protection, it is imperfect.

And yet here we are seeing in real time the Democrats — ’cause this is now a totally binary political issue, Democrat and Republicans. Democrats are pushing for the firing of health care workers during a pandemic, and now the firing of police officers who also play a role in the pandemic in the sense they’re first responders. But we are in an unprecedented, once in-a-century rise in violent crime in the United States and we’re about to lose thousands of officers from some of our biggest cities. How could this be described as anything other than madness?

CLAY: It is madness. And also, again, this show, I think, uniquely tries to go directly to the facts and the data and the studies to support the arguments that we’re making. And there was a study that came out today in The Lancet. So covid vaccine mandates, I believe, are unconstitutional. I think the idea that you should be forced, in order to have a job — particularly a job that matters as much in terms of public safety as the police, as the fire department, as many of those jobs do.

The idea that you would mandate a vaccine, in addition to being unconstitutional, it’s anti-scientific. And let me explain what this study came out from The Lancet said, Buck. It said: “Vaccinated just as likely to spread Delta variant within household as unvaccinated.” So in addition to the fact, Buck, right now that we have an unconstitutional — in my opinion — mandate coming down from the federal government…

The data, the actual data from scientists, The Lancet — kind of a big publication focused on medicine — have said that being vaccinated doesn’t make you less likely to spread covid. What is the basis, then? Think about the logic that we are applying here.

We are demanding that people get the covid vaccine even though it doesn’t actually impact the likelihood that they are going to spread covid. So how is there a public health mandate that you must be vaccinated when the likelihood that you spread covid to a coworkers — which is the justification here — is basically the same whether you are vaccinated or unvaccinated with the Delta variant.

BUCK: So, here’s what I think we see happening here, Clay. It’s a mirror image of what they did with mask mandates insofar as in the beginning — and you can go back. It was in The Atlantic, I remember, in the summer of 2020. I think it was maybe June or July. I think you and I might have been tweeting about the same thing back then. They had a study that they said showed that masking would reduce by about 60 to 70% covid cases.

CLAY: Yes.

BUCK: That was what they initially were saying. Obviously not even a little bit true, right? But then what happens is when they’re wrong, they keep saying, “Something is better than nothing. Something is better than nothing.” But they use the initial promise of an extremely high rate of protection, the initial promise of, “No, this is gonna be amazing!

“If you don’t see it that way, you’re a troglodyte” in order to get people to start doing this thing. And then when we see it doesn’t work as well as they said it would, they say, “Well, it’s better than nothing, isn’t it?” This got to the point, Clay, where that study — I think it was in Bangladesh, that huge mask study where it was supposed to be… I think it was even surgical masks, not even just standard cloth masks.

they looked and said, “Well, maybe it was a 3% reduction in cases — 3% — And people were saying, “Oh, see? Masks work.” What they’re doing now with vaccines is very similar. They told us it was 95%. They told us it was one-and-done; you’re not gonna spread it. Not true. But now, to what you just said in The Lancet — which is one of the most famous medical journals in the world, so this isn’t like RightWingVaxxTruther.org/net, right?

This is The Lancet. What they’ll say is, “Yes, you’re less likely to have that breakthrough infection.” So even if you’re as likely to spread it if you get it because you’re less likely to get it, therefore you’re less likely to spread it, therefore you still should have to suffer through the mandate. They keep moving the goalposts and we’re all getting dizzy from it.

CLAY: Not only that, you mentioned the mask mandate. Remember how far behind Biden was in the science that when he took office, he said — remember — if we just wear masks for a hundred days, covid will go away. That’s what he told the nation. It was 100% a lie. Anybody who looked at the data knew it was a lie. Either Biden is too dumb to actually know what the truth is —

BUCK: Yes. Yes. Yes.

CLAY: I think there’s an element there. I don’t think this is some diabolical plot by him. I think he’s being led by people who are smarter than he is and are unwilling to acknowledge the falsities that they have been propagating even as the data continues to change.